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Post by sibemom on Jan 25, 2004 13:43:46 GMT -5
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Post by Willow on Jan 25, 2004 14:24:39 GMT -5
I don't find feeding raw hard at all. I buy in bulk, and freeze and then take enough out for two rmb's meals. I never froze the mixed ground meat and veg's though. I always added the fresh ground veggie's to the ground turkey right before feeding, and the batch would last for the 2 days of a.m. veggie mush meals. Plus...I'm like Ann, always cooking something! ;D I try to prepare fresh food meals for us too and try to stay away from packaged/preparred foods that are full of chemicals, etc. My husband still says my dogs eat better than we do though! ;D
Thanks for reminding me about supplements, Ann! At first I gave kelp/alfalfa, digestive enzymes, calcium, vit.C, vit E, a probiotic, and some expensive stuff called *Super Seed* that contains Flax Seed, Sesame seed, Chia Seed, Sprouted Quinoa, (grain) Sprouted Amaranth (grain) Pumpkin Seed, Sunflower Seed, Garbanzo Bean, Red Lentil, Kidney Bean, Adzuki Bean, Millet (grain) Buckwheat (grain) and cinnamon!! Someone pm'd me on the vaccine board and told me my dogs must have this, but my homeopath told me it wasn't necessary, because a lot of dogs are allergic to Kelp/alfalfa and the Super Seed had too much grain in it, plus red meat has Vit. E., and bones are loaded with calcium etc. She told me the only supplement she recommends is Cod Liver Oil in the winter, and Salmon Oil in the summer, IF your dog does not get itchy from it, and she feed a raw diet to her Great Danes too.
My dogs were itchy at first, until I cut out everything but the Cod Liver Oil, ground flax seed or flax oil, (which some dogs are also allergic to) and garlic.
Some say the garlic works for parasites etc., some say it doesn't. I know I take garlic all the time and the ticks and mosquitoes still love me!
Speaking of intestinal parasites. Everyone is usually concerned that with eating that raw meat their dogs will become infested. So far I can truthfully say that my dogs had worms more often when they were on kibble than they have now! They have not had any worms at all yet, and they used to get them regularly, plus tape worm at least once a year! I have heard the same from other raw feeder's. Again, once the immune system is healthy, there should be no big problem with intestinal parasites.
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Post by amyjo on Jan 29, 2004 9:12:48 GMT -5
Okay.... I am feeling a little emotional about this right now so please forgive me if I sound a little screechy. Loey if I believe the stuff in those links you posted then I have to accept that my ignorance had a hand in my dogs untimely cancer death and that is just a little hard to swallow. However - I am not willing to let fear and guilt get in the way of learning and I have been struggling with the fact that 3 months after a clean bill of health and yearly vaccs last march I had a dead dog and another with cancer in my house. True they were "senior" but I always found the timing and the fact that I discovered Elvis' malignant melanoma the week Mickey died to be very suspicious. My vet said that most dogs over a certain age die of cancer and I just accepted that for a fact...now I am saying to myself that is a descripion of a problem that should be solved not an explaination of what happened to my family. I am going to talk to my vet about this stuff and if I can't get the titer tests done - I will find a new one. Here are some questions I have - In general do you find for kenneling, agility class, therapy work etc... are the titer results enough? What about heart worm? what if the dog gets heart worm despite all the immunity boosting effects of the diet...is the yearly test enough to catch it fast enough in the worms life cycle? Is the treatment effective at that stage?
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Post by Nicole on Jan 29, 2004 9:39:54 GMT -5
Amyjo, some kennels etc will accept a certification from the vet that the titer showed adequate protection. It is an individual standard though. It is up to the particular kennel. I am not sure about agility etc. as I am not involved in that.
As to heartworms, my personal opinion is that this is a seperate issue than vaccines. I do titers but I give monthly heartworm. Even Ed Frawley, who is greatly against yearly vaccines, gives heartworm meds. I am not willing to take the risk of leaving my dog unprotected for this. Don't ever give the one year proheart shot for heartworms though. It has been linked to the death of many dogs.
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Post by amyjo on Jan 29, 2004 11:47:36 GMT -5
Unfortunatley I started that pro heart shot last fall...seemed like such a great idea at the time.
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Post by Nicole on Jan 29, 2004 12:13:50 GMT -5
Don't worry, Amyjo, based upon my reading, most adverse reactions to this shot rear themselves fairly soon after the shot is given. But don't ever give it again. It is so frustrating that most vets and the manufacturer, Fort Dodge, refuse to recognize a causual link. Here is a site that will provide you with truthful information. www.proheartinformation.com
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Post by amyjo on Jan 29, 2004 12:27:48 GMT -5
My vet talked it up sooo BIG... when you like your vet as a person you want to trust them. It is easy to forget they could be puppets of the big drug companies
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Post by Willow on Jan 29, 2004 15:53:27 GMT -5
Amyjo, don't blame yourself for what happened to your dogs. Put the blame where it belongs...with the Vets and drug companies! I am on a vaccine list on yahoo. groups.yahoo.com/group/TruthAboutVaccines/This group is wonderful and where I get all my information. I urge anyone who wants to learn the truth and what safe alternative's you can give your dog to join this group! There are pet owner's as well as breeder's in the group, and Vets too, as well as people who show their dogs in breed classes, agility, and ob, and they do not vaccinate, give hw etc. The list owner, Magda Aquilla is a wonderful homeopathic vet and she treats people as well. I know my one dog would not still be here if I hadn't gotten on that list and had Magda start treating them. As for HW, What most do is have their dog tested in the fall/winter after HW season is over with and Yes, this is adequate, because they will not get HW during the winter (in colder climates), and if they should get it the next summer and test positive in the fall/winter, you can still treat successfully/safely. HW grow very slowly. What some do is instead of treating the way Vets do, with the arsenic or whatever it is, that can kill the dog, is put them on monthly hw preventative, which is easier on the dog than the conventional treatment, and since it kills the hw gradually, there is no need to keep the dog quiet etc. I know many on the list who live in very bad hw areas and who have not used hw preventative's for years and whose dogs have been just fine and haven't gotten hw. You know the saying: *Where there is life, there is hope*, so as long as we and our dogs are still alive it's not to late to learn and to start doing what's best for them. Don't be surprised if your Vet goes balistic on you if you approach him on this. The more the word gets around that they are one of the main reason's our dogs are dying at young ages and from diseases that were unheard of before all this *prevention* stuff was invented and promoted, it will mean they will lose their credibility and a lot of patience, which means $$$$$$. Personally, I resent paying Vets so much just to have my dogs get chronic or accute disease and die years younger than they should. Chronic or accute disease can surface anytime after vaccinations or preventative treatments are given. There is no time limit on it.
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Post by Nicole on Jan 29, 2004 17:11:14 GMT -5
Loey, if the homeopaths are willing to treat the disease with monthly heartworm preventative, wouldn't it make more sense to prevent the disease with the monthly meds considering the variables and that it is a potentially fatal disease. By variables I am referring to missed diagnosis at the early stage, a not uncommon occurrence, advancemenent of the disease, damage to organs and body systems to a point where the dog may not even tolerate arsenic treatment. You know that I have an open mind and agree that our dogs are being pumped with too many chemicals but I would not be comfortable not giving the preventative. And if my vaccine titers were low, I would vaccinate.
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Post by Willow on Jan 29, 2004 17:28:07 GMT -5
Well, that's where it comes down to doing what we feel is right for us. We are the only ones who can decide that.
The ones who are really *into* this feel the disadvantages of putting monthly chemicals into their dogs is worse than maybe having to treat for HW for a few months down the road, and like I have said, there are many on the list who have been vaccine, hw preventative etc. free for years w/out any problem, but they are also raw feeding, which helps boost the immune system.
I will ask the list and see what they have to say.
My brother in law never used to vaccinate his dogs or anything, but when he got a new Golden puppy he did, and now his young dog has thyroid problems, which he attributes to the vaccinations.
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Post by Willow on Jan 29, 2004 17:28:50 GMT -5
Well, that's where it comes down to doing what we feel is right for us. We are the only ones who can decide that.
The ones who are really *into* this feel the disadvantages of putting monthly chemicals into their dogs is worse than maybe having to treat for HW for a few months down the road, and like I have said, there are many on the list who have been vaccine, hw preventative etc. free for years w/out any problem, but they are also raw feeding, which helps boost the immune system.
I will ask the list and see what they have to say.
My brother in law never used to vaccinate his dogs or anything, but when he got a new Golden puppy he did, and now his young dog has thyroid problems, which he attributes to the vaccinations.
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Post by Nicole on Jan 29, 2004 17:41:28 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying. I would really be interested to see what the list response is to this. Thanks.
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Post by sibemom on Jan 29, 2004 17:59:52 GMT -5
Here is my thought on this. I have never ever given heartworm meds to any dogs that I have ever owned and I have had ALOT ;D Blade was the first one. I let the vet talk me into it. None of my other dogs ever tested positive. Was this luck? I dont think so. First you have to understand how this is transmitted. All conditions must be present. It's like a lab experiment with controlls. If the dog is healthy with a good immune system the chance with even this condition is slim. If you go to the site that Loey has posted you will learn a great deal. My pup got so sick from his heartworm meds and they never even acknowledged it was happening. I do not agree with putting chemicals in or on my animals. If a dog would test positive the treatments have come such along way that the prognosis is good. Will I ever give Blade heartworm meds again? NO. Will I do everything in my power to keep his immune system healthy and use homeopathic treatments? YOU BET . It's your choice but before you make it do your homework on the WHOLE issue.
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Post by sibemom on Jan 29, 2004 18:45:16 GMT -5
You know whats funny ? I just got the Dr's Forster and Smith newsletter a few minutes ago and the topic was guess what? You got it heartworms
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Post by amyjo on Jan 29, 2004 18:46:07 GMT -5
I don't mean to be inflamatory... and trust me I am doing my homework. I have been poking around this issue since canine cancer hit my happy home last year.
There is alot of passion on both sides of the vaccination isssue as well as the BARF issue. There are horror stories on both sides and success stories on both sides too.
What may seem very obvious to you is still very dubious to me...it isn't easy to buck the status quo when you have always believed you have given your dog the best of everything, including medical care.
In the spirit of learning I want to ask...do you approach health care issues for yourself and your children the same way? Are your children immunized?
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