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Post by sibemom on Sept 24, 2006 21:12:55 GMT -5
HEY NICE TO SEE YOU LAURA , I WAS WONDERING WHERE YOU WERE ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Laura on Sept 24, 2006 21:17:14 GMT -5
I'mmm baaaack !
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Post by espencer85 on Sept 24, 2006 23:31:53 GMT -5
Am:Again, "Then why bother posting, if all you're going to do is quote someone else?" because is exactly the way i think but he explains it better than me, yes i agree that there are powerful breeds that have better chances to be aggressive but that does not mean he HAS to be because is in his DNA. Now not because i saw other people adding 2 plus 2 that does not mean i dont know that is 4 if i didnt do it myself, like i said before i had that experience with that Chihuahua who was aggressive and they way i handled it worked, today i went to visit my friend with his 2 dogs, since they are not mine and my friend in not really into being a pack leader and give discipline then of course every time i go they still have a couple issues, the schnauzer likes to be dominant with the golden retriever, he does not listen to the schnauzer so the schnauzer feels the need to use a higher level of "correction" toward?s the golden retriever, since the golden retriever still doesnt listen then the schnauzer felt that growling higher and actually nipping the other dog will help him to gain dominance, they dont see my friend as a leader, but when i'm there they listen to me, i could tell they definitely were going to start a fight, i didnt let the situation get worse and i just grabbed the golden retriever and addressed the schnauzer by touching him on his side and doing "sshhh", the schnauzer immediately stopped growling and turned around In your case i would advice the same thing, to avoid your dog getting in the higher level of aggression you should do a correction at the same moment he is paying attention to the other dog, if you let him focus on the other dog for more than 2 seconds then it will be more difficult to handle it, i never said to do it just once and then it will be fixed, after practice you will be able to have your dog in one side of the fence and the other one at the other side without even make a noise, even if the other dog is barking at him. IF i was not paying attention and i let my dog go to a higher level what i would do is only turn myself around to avoid my dog facing the other dog and apply a normal leash correction a couple times, if you have him facing the other dog it will be almost impossible, just turn the dog 180 degrees, dont let him face the other dog and you will see that he will listen to you almost right away K9Rocky: Again, i quote a book to explain myself better about experiences that I ALSO had, i repeated in other threads that i did it myself, i didnt just got a book, read it and started writing in the forums, do you think that i would be doing this debate with 3 or 4 different people if i didnt do it myself before? so to avoid misunderstandings: quoting=explain myself better about my OWN experiences I read all the posts from other people, thats why i respond to them, assuming that i dont will require you to be next to me right here to see what i am reading and what i'm not, are you? no you are not Laura:Yeap no body used "vicious" but that does not mean that quote does not apply since the word aggression is used more than the word "vicious" and even that word is in quotes, so you are just reading the first couple sentences and try to make out a point from only those 2 first sentences when clearly the quote is about aggression "We started thousands of years ago by breeding dogs to be fighters, selecting them for certain characteristics and matching them up to a similar mate. Pit bulls and bull terriers were bred in the Victorian era for combat in the ruthless sport of dogfighting and bull baiting" Thank you for that quote that acutually proves my point also, in the Victorian era the people was not able to change DNA in dogs, they were choosing those kind of dogs because they have more chances to attack than run away, just like basketball, African Americans are the ones that play more basketball than other races, why? because they have the characteristics that they need to succeed in that sport BUT that does NOT MEAN they were created only to play the sport and it does not matter if you mix the race to make it better that does not mean that their instincts will tell them to play basketball So what is the topic again? "Cesar's Distraction Method"? is somebody else telling Am how to help her with her problem? or should we change the name of the topic to "let's forget about anything else and bring our own disagreements to espencer85 to prove our point"? Did i say before that my only method is kicking the dog in the nuts and your will fix any problem? because that the way you are reacting. Did i said that YOUR methods are a bunch of crap? i didnt, actually somebody else did, can i also say that to PP training if i think the same about their methods? YES, YES, YES, YES I have my OWN experience, the quoting ONLY, ONLY, ONLY, ONLY, ONLY, ONLY helps me to express myself better about my OWN experiences besides that shows what an expert has to say about the case too, i have said that a million times before but you keep repeating the opposite YES I DID IT, YES IT WORKED FOR ME, YES I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUTYou should then have a rule like "you must have 10+ years of experience to give advice if not we wont believe what you say and will call it misinformation and a bunch of crap"
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Post by Richard on Sept 25, 2006 4:54:54 GMT -5
If you think your stuff is that solid, do me a favor and go over to leerburg.com and post in thier forum there - I'm sure they'll be impressed. I know they'll love the part about not having to do obedience training with your dog to have it behave normally.
You're not getting it and I'm tired of trying to explain it to you.
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Post by willow on Sept 25, 2006 7:30:25 GMT -5
Well, again, I hijack a thread, sorry Loey. As if I care. ;D No need to apologize.
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Post by Nicole on Sept 25, 2006 7:49:39 GMT -5
That's great. Now tell us what it is. No one ever said you have to have 10 plus years experience. We just want to know what your experience involves. If you have your OWN experience, you should be proud of it. So tell us what you have done. helping a friend with two dogs is nice but not really enough to constitute "experience." Reading a book does not constitute experience. I have read a book on brain surgery. I don't think you would want me to take out your hypothalamus now would you. No one is going to take you seriously unless you answer the question. So far the advice that you have given people is dangerous, bad and wrong. And by doing so, you are effecting the reputation and credibility of this forum. You are also bastardizing Cesar's methods. I am not being rude. I am dead serious. Yes Richard. What a splendid idea. Juan would be most welcome over there....;D
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Post by espencer85 on Sept 25, 2006 8:10:12 GMT -5
wow even when in the Reality expectations thread says:
"What we expect from you.
1. We expect you to observe some courtesy, civil etiquette and maintain class.
2.We expect you to voice your opinions. With class, dignity and respect and common sense. Remember this is a place for people of many age groups. Be respectful.
3.We expect you to be respect others opinions.
Is clearly that does not happen here, just to show you that you just came to attack me personally:
1.- The potty training method, does not belong to this thread since is my method but you broght it to talk trash to me about it
2.-Even when i said i did it myself you dont respect it and breake the forum rules
3.-The sad part is that you are supposse to be a "moderator"
So my opinion is not solid only because you feel is like that? lets have another rule then:
4.-If K9Rocky does not think your methods are solid you can not give advice EVEN if it worked for you
I also think that PP training wont help in some cases, can i call it bunch of crap too because i dont think is solid? or are you send me a message to respect other people opinions?
"It's the wrong method for a new puppy owner. People need something simple and they need something that works - like what I wrote or Willow wrote - not some stupid "catch your dog squating and redirect the energy" garbage."
Can i said the same about your methods or PP methods? because it sems you can here, can i said:
I think that OB training is not needed to have a well behaved dog and if you think the dog needs it THAT is a piece of crap, is lame and a bunch of garbage, i dont respect your opinions and if you think is the other way then go to other forums to write about it
Can i? i was not the first one to say it anyways, so like we say in mexico "llegale a la verga pinche gabacho pendejito"
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Post by willow on Sept 25, 2006 8:23:57 GMT -5
No offense, and nothing against " DOG", but I took one look at your Avitar, Juan, and I knew it would be fruitless to try to reason with you. You have an ego as big as Alaska and feel superior to every other dog trainer and psychologist out there.
Be careful. Even the mighty eventually fall and I just hope you don't come across a dog that seriously hurts you, but the more dogs you work with, the greater chance of that happening is.
Maybe I am wrong about you, and if I am I apologize, but you have come on so strong and have told us so many times that Cesar's way is the only way, that we aren't getting to know the "real Juan".
Would the "Real Juan" please stand up and introduce himself? ;D
And would you please understand and respect the fact that not everyone here are dog psychologists or behaviorists...or even professional trainer's, but we all have tried different methods and know what works for US.
If you have another method that works better, and you can prove it to us, we will be glad to discuss it with you in a calm, polite way.
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Post by Nicole on Sept 25, 2006 8:29:42 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with having an opinion and preferring a method. But when the method is unsound, unproven, can damage the human or damage the dog, you are going to be called on that. There are thousands of people out there reading this advice and the advice has to be sound for all situations and all people. Do you get that. Does that mean good bye....
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Post by willow on Sept 25, 2006 8:39:11 GMT -5
Is clearly that does not happen here, just to show you that you just came to attack me personally: No Juan, it was clearly the other way around. You came here and started attacking us and telling us in so many words that we didn't know what we were talking about. This says it all about you, because this thinking is so wrong! I know I am wasting my breath, but some times it feels good anyway!
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Post by sibemom on Sept 25, 2006 10:23:39 GMT -5
OK here I go, since I was the one that invited you and am starting to rethink my offer WE ARE ON OTHER FORUMS and WE DO POST OUR OPINIONS backed up by OUR KNOWLEDGE. I think you really are confused about what OB training is Even the behavioral aspect of rehab is TRAINING. Even just making the dog stand in ONE SPOT IS TRAINING. No they never have to sit, if you don't want them to, and they never HAVE to lie down if you choose not to teach them, but if you do not implement some sort of TRAINING along with the rehab, then HOW DO YOU CONTROLL THEM. Even when Cesar puts the leash on a dog THAT IS TRAINING THEM, to follow WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU CALL THAT. Now if you choose never to do formal OB training FINE that is no big deal, but YOU SHOW ME how a dog can exisist without some sort of TRAINING. I pm'd you and told you when I was growing up we never did formal training with our dogs, we set the rules and everything fell into place I DID NOT TELL YOU we did not TRAIN THEM, of course we did otherwise they would have been running a muck and when you have 30 to 40 dogs all living in the same pack, dogs of all different breeds, ages, etc... you better have SOME KIND OF TRAINING IN PLACE even if it is standing in the middle of the field and yelling "HEY" if they all look THEN YOU TRAINED THEM TO DO THAT . Yes since I invited you here I am extending that invitation to FOLLOW ME TO www.leerburg.com join the forum and lets talk more about this over there. It will be very interesting if your ideas and opinons will be veiwed as experience or theory. That is group that you will really have to know your stuff in order to convince them that what you are saying is from WHAT YOU HAVE PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED. So expand yourself and join over there You will find it very enlightening ;D
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Post by espencer85 on Sept 25, 2006 10:33:54 GMT -5
Is clearly that does not happen here, just to show you that you just came to attack me personally: Thanks willow i appreciate your advice Mister "moderator" didnt like when i told him that i didnt think that you need OB training in a dog to be well behaved and it seems he toke it personal, first because i NEVER talked trash about his way of thinking, he actually did and not even in the right thread, he brought the topic from another place and started questioning me ending with saying that my method is garbage so since the moderator is able to talk like that then i think everybody can, i will do it but only to people that attack me first There is nothing wrong with having an opinion and preferring a method. But when the method is unsound, unproven, can damage the human or damage the dog, you are going to be called on that. There are thousands of people out there reading this advice and the advice has to be sound for all situations and all people. Do you get that. Everybody is just assuming that i just read a book and started writing in internet Saying "yes i did it myself" is not enough? yes i give you expamples too, do you think i would be here arguing against 2 people and a moderator if i did not know if it works or not since i did it myself? Should we have a video seccion where we can prove we where there? or we should fax prove of experience? because it seems that only by saying it does not work. Should i give also the time, type of dog, color of the room and what way the wind was blowing when i did it? The potty training is not even a Cesar method, thats mine, it worked for me and is the one i'm being attacked for the most, my dog is perfectly fine so i can tell it can work with the other dogs, have K9Rocky try it? he is just assuming what will happen, well actually what he is assuming didnt happen, it happened the opposite so i guess the part of "But when the method is unsound, unproven, can damage the human or damage the dog" does not apply, yes i have corrected a dog in his create, did he bit me? no he didnt, thats why i can say BY MY OWN EXPERIENCE that could help, the person does not have to follow exactly what i say, it worked for me but that does not mean it will work for other person, if thats the case no body will be able to give advice here because they dont know if their method (any kind of method) will work with their specific dog, the person is not gonna be like "well my dog is aggressive towards me but because i read in internet that i can do it then i will, even when i didnt mention he bit me before" Everybody here takes the advice and they decide to follow it or not depending on their own specific situation I have NEVER EVER said my method is better and i EVEN write that in bold to avoid people thinking that, but they just dont like a new guy coming and tell them RESPECTFULLY "well i dont think you need that to have that behavior" or "well maybe you need to work more in this with this way that worked for me" because they will start questioning me like with an attitude like "really, how do you know? have you been there? show me or i wont believe you" So if the people here dont like my methods they dont have to listen but dont talk trash about them, and PLEASE dont assume something will happen if i DID it myself and it was ok untill you do it YOURSELF and write "well i tried that and the dog got mad" THEN you can say it was dangerous I thought my avatar would be funny, sibemom liked it but that is far from what i really am, i will change it
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Post by willow on Sept 25, 2006 10:36:22 GMT -5
While Cesar doesn't emphasize ob training, I once saw on one of his shows where he asked one of his dogs to "sit" in front of him and it did, so maybe he doesn't "formally" train each and every one of his dogs, but I would bet they at least know "sit" and "go lie down".
I could be wrong of course.
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Post by espencer85 on Sept 25, 2006 10:43:19 GMT -5
Well sibemom i will ALSO join there, however i will of course be here trying to help other people that has problems with their dogs, as more people i can help the better, people thank me believe it or not when i give advice and i like that (and it works for them), here people just dont like to have a newby telling them i think different, not even in the PP trainer forums are as rude as here but i wont be leaving anyways
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Post by espencer85 on Sept 25, 2006 10:53:27 GMT -5
While Cesar doesn't emphasize ob training, I once saw on one of his shows where he asked one of his dogs to "sit" in front of him and it did, so maybe he doesn't "formally" train each and every one of his dogs, but I would bet they at least know "sit" and "go lie down". I could be wrong of course. Oh yes i have seen him doing it too, if the dog knows how thats fine, that can help, however it is not necessary that the dog knows it to have a dog well behaved, i've never said that would not help
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