Kat
puppy
Posts: 4
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Post by Kat on Feb 1, 2004 10:12:24 GMT -5
Hi folks,
I'm new here via following a link on Dogomania which I am sure a lot of you are familiar with. A very quick intro: My name is Kat and I am a final year zoology honours student majoring in social behaviour of wild and domestic canines at Queens university Belfast. My life revolves around dogs and training and competing and I have 2 furbabes; a Border Collie called Meg and a Golden Retriever called Zoe. I work Meg in competitive Obedience and Agility at championship level for each and additionally we compete in showhandling and Meg is also a therapy dog and a registered Search and rescue team dog.
Anyway onto a very quick question. Meg and I are competing in the obedience world championships at Crufts this March. Most of this class is made up from exercises in championship obedience classes in the USA. Does anyone work a dog at this level in the US and do a directed retrieve? If so how are you teaching/how have you taught the directed retrieve?
Thanks in advance ;D
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Post by Willow on Feb 1, 2004 11:11:33 GMT -5
Hi Kat, I have read some of your posts on dogo and was very impressed. It's nice to see you here.
I have only trained basic obedience and also only have trained Labs for Field Trials.
Could you explain to a dummy (me) what a *directed retrieve* is? Would that be like what Retriever people call a *marked* retrieve where the dog sees the object being thrown, or would it be like a *blind* retrieve where the dog doesn't see the object and you have to *direct* him to it using hand signals?
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Post by Nicole on Feb 1, 2004 11:37:22 GMT -5
Welcome Kat. Sorry, I can't help with your question but wanted to say it is nice to have you here.
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Kat
puppy
Posts: 4
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Post by Kat on Feb 1, 2004 12:36:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcome ;D
A directed retrieve is where 3 dumbells are set out in a line that can be as little length as 2 metres long and the dog is at least 6 metres from the line. On command the dog is to pick up the left, middle or right dumbell.
Its very difficult as the dog has all 3 in sight at that distance away from the line. We are working on it at the moment using left, right and straight, but in the ring you can only use the dogs name and one command of which I use "hold", so I have to drop the directional command. We are doing ok at it, but as its an exercise derived from the AKC test, I thought maybe someone might have a foolproof method of teaching it! ;D
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Post by sibemom on Feb 1, 2004 14:04:34 GMT -5
COOL Not something I would even try but hey you have my utmost respect. Welcome to group ;D
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Post by Willow on Feb 1, 2004 15:04:00 GMT -5
I think I understand what you are saying. With Retriever's there is a similar *test*, but the difference is that the dog watches all 3 *birds* fall. You then have to send him to retrieve the birds, going from last to first. It's a test on your dogs ability to *handle* (take direction from you) and on his *marking ability* or memory. There is also another test where the dog has to retrieve a *bird* and has to go past one or more closer birds, out and back, without picking either of those up.
As to the test you are talking about, however, I would have to see it done etc., before I would be comfortable telling anyone how to train for it. Sorry I can't be of any help, either!
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Post by Brooke on Feb 1, 2004 17:09:36 GMT -5
Hey there Kat! I'm so happy to see you made it over! I don't have much to offer agility wise. I haven't really gotten into it much quite yet. I'm learning all kinds of stuff. I definately hope to see you around again! ;D ;D ;D Take care!
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Post by Willow on Feb 1, 2004 19:46:35 GMT -5
Kat, I do have another question. If you can only say the dogs name in the ring, how do you direct him to the dumbbell you want him to pick up? Or does the dog go over to all 3 and when he gets to the one you want him to pick up, you say his name?
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Kat
puppy
Posts: 4
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Post by Kat on Feb 2, 2004 17:36:37 GMT -5
Hi Willow,
Nope the idea is that the dog will be pointed in the direction of the dumbell that she is to be directed towards, but the dogs name and a command ( I use hold) is only spoken when the steward commands the handler to send the dog out. This being am AKC championship exercise, I have never ever did it with Meg in competition, so Crufts will be the first!
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Post by Laura on Feb 3, 2004 2:14:39 GMT -5
Hi Kat, and welcome to the forum . Hmm, I had to go ask my FIL on this one since agility and retrieving are certainly not in my repartee ;D. He suggested since no directional verbal commands can be given, do it with your body language. He suggests to stand back just far enough (25-35 ft.), and literally point your chin in the direction of the bell while giving the command. Make the gesture fairly bold at the start of the excercise, make it more subtle as the dog understands this to be a nonverbal cue. Let me know if this actually works, otherwise, he's fired
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Post by Aussienot on Feb 3, 2004 19:20:08 GMT -5
Now that he retrieves I am teaching Finn the directed retrieve. (at a much, much, much lower level of expectations than your's, of course) I was told also to use body language to direct. Also when you start only use two items, and put them as far apart as you can to start. Make them clearly in two different directions so that your pointing and body lean clearly spell out one or the other. Gradually bring them closer together over several training session, and only add the center (third) item when the dog is rock solid with the 1st and 3rd. In Australia we use white gloves for the directed retrieve at the UD level. Dumbells would be easier!
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Kat
puppy
Posts: 4
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Post by Kat on Feb 4, 2004 9:02:30 GMT -5
Thanks everyone! I will definitely put more emphasis on my body language. Its a bit unfair and we are being thrown in at the deep end as no one here knows how to train it, so we are all inventing our own training method lol!
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Post by Willow on Feb 4, 2004 12:35:49 GMT -5
I think Aussienot's method is very good. That is basically the way we train a retriever to retrieve the bird we want, by first starting with one bird out there, then two and then three, and by spacing them farther apart at first and then gradually moving them closer together. In FT's though, we can use a hand signal and say *mark* to show the dog which bird you want and then we use the dogs name to send the dog to the bird. This is on birds the dog can see. On birds the dog can't see, or *blind retrieve's*, we give the hand signal, but say *dead bird* instead of *mark*. This is called, *giving the dog a 'line' to the bird*. You always use the dogs name to send the dog whether it's a marked fall or blind retrieve, but FT tests are very different than ob tests, of course, because for one thing, the retriever's have to go out farther distances and have to remember which bird fell first etc., and on *blind retrieve's*, the dog has to rely entirely on the handler's whistle and hand signals to reach the bird, or *handle well*. Awsome to watch when a good retriever is working.
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