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Post by masha on Oct 29, 2004 5:05:54 GMT -5
Here's something thats been bugging me for a long time.
One of those Science Diet companies - think it was Royal Canine - had a range of books that came as free gifts with the food. Quite nice books too, with different breeds being showcased and articles on "the dog in art" and so on.
Now, in one of these books there is a article (which might have been written by some one high up in the dog food company - if I remember correctly).
In this article they state that: A) Dogs have far fewer taste buds than humans B) Dogs dont have digestive enzymes in their mouths C)Dogs have a very different digestive system from humans
The point of this whole thing was that dogs dont, and should not, have a varied diet. It seemed to be aimed at people who feel uncomfortable with feeding their dogs exactly the same food every day all their lives.
Now I'm wondering. This seems an awfully convenient fact for a dog food company. And surely, in the wild, dogs and wolves and so on eat all kinds of things? Are domestic dogs actually better off eating exactly the same thing every day, or is it just acceptable, or even bad for them not to have a varied diet?
And anyway I thought the point about dogs having fewer tasts buds was a bit dim, as dogs have so much more "smell buds" or whatever call them... ;D
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Post by Nicole on Oct 29, 2004 6:46:49 GMT -5
I would be suspicious of anything that someone from Science diet says. they also say their food is good when we know it isn't. Anyway, I have no scientific knowledge about this subject BUT I do know that when I tried to give Sunny some liquid Benedryl (I thought he would like the cherry flavor ) he spit it out and he does the same thing with his heartworm pill and this canned fish food I tried to give him. He also didn't like canidae kibble but likes other kinds. That is a taste bud at work. So yes I do think that dogs have taste buds. Maybe they aren't as sophisticated as ours but they sure do have them and I don't think they are so " dim." But that is just my unscientific opinion. ;D Their digestive system is different whereas we start the digestive process while we chew our food while dogs do all of their digestion in the stomach. In the wild they must need variety to get all of the essential nutriets they need just like when you feed raw. With kibble, maybe they don't NEED variety because it purportedly has all of the nutrients (not so convinced about that) but I think they "appreciate" non kibble variety.
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Post by Iluvmypup on Oct 29, 2004 13:05:02 GMT -5
Hmm...thats a good question. In a shelter I work at, its run on low funds, meaning we take what we can get for food. The dogs are typically adopted within 2 or 3 weeks, but if not they're placed in foster homes simply because the food they are getting is always changing according to what we've been donated or can afford. The results end up with a dog that vomits or has diarrhea, so the switching of foods is definately not a pretty picture. But when they're fed raw, they do seem to get variety with no ill side effects. I'm looking forward to any replies to this...
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Post by Willow on Oct 29, 2004 14:39:23 GMT -5
They still need a variety, even when fed kibble, because even though there are vitamins/minerals etc. added to it, they still aren't getting all the nutrients they need due to several reasons. #1. There is usually only one or two protein sources. #2. There are so many fillers in kibble that they don't need, they aren't getting everything they need, and #3. The kibble is cooked, which destroys a lot of the nutrients, and #4 which I think is the most important of all.... #4. Carnivore's are created to eat RMB's. In the wild they mostly eat proteins, but from a variety of sources. They eat everything from mice to what ever birds and fish they can catch. They will eat berries etc., but is it because they "need" them, or is their proteins sources scarce at the time?
Dogs are like us. They can "survive" on a "junk food diet" (kibble), but eventually, just like people who eat a lot of "junk food", it will catch up to them and they will begin to have chronic health problems, such as cancer, diabetes, thyroid problems, weight problems...and the list goes on and on.
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Post by Aussienot on Oct 29, 2004 20:11:51 GMT -5
I don't think this is a convenient 'yes' or 'no' question. We all know that CONTSTANTLY changing food everyday is hard on the digestive system. And it's pretty much a given that only one food type cannot provide full spectrum nutrition, so NEVER varying the food will lead to health problems.
So the best answer is somewhere in the middle of these two extreme positions. Establish a Diet (not a single food, a balanced collection of food that provide full spectrum nutrition) and stay consistently within that range.
For Raw feeders, that's easy. There are a wide range of species appropriate food. For Kibble feeders, you would probably want to stay with the same brand of kibble, but you can vary the diet safely by occasionally adding fresh ingredients such as Raw Meaty Bones, eggs, yoghurt, liquified vegetables and fruits.
The "facts"
A) Dogs have far fewer taste buds than humans B) Dogs dont have digestive enzymes in their mouths C)Dogs have a very different digestive system from humans
May all be true, but these facts could be used to support either raw or kibble. Um, yes, dogs have different digestive systems, so comparing them to humans is not particularly helpful.
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Post by Iluvmypup on Oct 30, 2004 10:24:56 GMT -5
Good respons, Aussienot, and I agree. Raw feeding naturally gives the dog variety (unless of course the owner always feeds them the same thing, but thats not what raw feeding is all about from what I've learned), but frequently changing kibble can give bad side effects. My dogs get all kinds of additions to their kibble, but I never change the kibble once I find one that they like and one that I see has great results on them. Yogurt, veggies, fruits, and raw and cooked meats just to list a few.
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Post by masha on Oct 30, 2004 10:56:38 GMT -5
OK, this all sounds very sensible to me -
I've notice digestive problems can occur when one changes to a different type of kibble. Why is this?
I think I need to go have a look at the Raw Feeding forum posts and learn more about this.
I know that somewhere in my area you can get ostrich meat fairly cheaply, and as far as I know most of the people here who do raw feeding use this. We have a lot of ostrich farms around here. So maybe its time to track that down...
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Post by amyjo on Oct 30, 2004 12:48:57 GMT -5
Hi Masha -
Well - raw feeding is certainly no guarentee against tummy upset. I can attest that I have cleaned up some real messes early in my raw feeding career.
But - raw feeding seems to be different from kibble in that once the dog's digestive system becomes adjusted to raw - you can feed pretty much anything raw and not have too many issues. If the bone content is low - you might have runny stools - which is very different than diahreah.
My best guess as to why different kibbles upset the tummy is because kibble is on the whole an inappropriate food and is full of fillers and preservatives which cause irritation of the digestive tract. Basically (and keep in mind I am pulling this out of my ass)... I believe that the dog becomes "immune" to the irritants in whatever kibble they are accustomed to. The fact that you cannot readily switch between kibbles with out causing digestive stress is a big old red flag, in my book that says there is something wrong with kibble!
I feed ostrich with great success. I get necks and hearts from a local farmer and my dogs really love them both. Good luck with your research and let me know if I can help with anything!
Amy
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Post by masha on Oct 30, 2004 15:39:21 GMT -5
Hi Amyjo - I think you are correct in your remarks - wherever you pulled them from ;D . My husband has some serious food allergy problems and as a result weve been doing a lot of reading about these things. Apprently a very good indication that you are alergic to something, or that a food or drink is bad for you, is that when you stop eating or drinking it, you have a reaction. For example if you are habitual coffee drinker and you stop for long enough for your system to be free of caffeine,(usually about 24 hours) you will probably get a severe headache. As you say , this is because your body has adjusted as well as it can to the irritants and if the irritants are removed, it takes a while to readjust - and before that happens you will have headaches and upset tummy and so on. Most people just have another coffee, and then think that the coffee cures the headache... But I'm gettin rather off topic here. I dont know why I never made the connection between this and dog food. And I guess that a dog cant let you know it has a headache ...
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