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Post by Dom on Aug 18, 2006 23:16:56 GMT -5
I know the Vet said Elsie's lungs and heart sounded fine BUT I was watching Sadie and Elsie sleep while I was in the living room on potty duty. Elsie would take 12 breaths for every 1 of Sadies. They were both completely knocked out asleep. I know Elsie weighs only 45 and Sadie weighs 85 but should their breathing pattern be that much different? I am worried Elsie's heartworms are damaging her lungs/heart more than what the Vet said. I am very scared to stick her under the neetle for spaying if she is having problem. I KNOW that keeping her calm for 3 months is a PITA. Should I risk it and give her the full heartworm treatment? I really don't like the Vet we spoke to. I normally have another. The Vet we spoke to gave us a phone book of papers why we shouldn't be feeding RAW to Sadie when Sadie was 6 months. She also said if we kill her it was on our hands. That Vet was the only one available when I brought Elsie in. The other Vet we spoke to during Sadie growing up gave us warnings and what to do if *insert here* happened. Should I try and make a visit with the Vet we like in the same office or does anyone know if the irregular (between Sadie and Elsie) breathing is normal? I have not bonded with this new dog like I have with Sadie but I still want nothing to happen to her. She is now part of our family.
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Post by Richard on Aug 19, 2006 8:06:04 GMT -5
Does Elsie look to be in any physical discomfort? Does it look like she is struggling for air or that she's gasping? When she was asleep, was her breathing rhythmic or laboured? How is she when she awake and moving around? Ok, I'm no vet but if she's not displaying any discomfort when breathing (awake or asleep) then she's doing what comes naturally to her - I can't even say for sure that big dogs breath more rapidly than medium/smaller dogs. Having said that, of course, go see the vet that you are comfortable with and get the answers/direction you need to make the right decisions. Being the overcautious person I am, I'd still go ahead and give her the meds to get her system back to normal so if there is anything else wrong, I'd eliminate one more possible cause. Nothing wrong with being paranoid just make sure you take steps to sort out the reasons why you're feeling that way, resolve them and move onto better things (like nice long walks with your dogs!! )
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Post by Nicole on Aug 19, 2006 9:33:41 GMT -5
I can only tell you what I would do. Not that this is what you should do.
I would go to the other vet ASAP or if you are not comfortable with doing that go to a different office for a second opinion. I would give the full treatment if you are reasonably sure that you can keep her quiet. I think that this can be accomplished with a crate. She will survive the boredom. It isn't for that long. I would not spay her under any circumstances until after she has completely recovered from the heartworms and treatment. I would not give any vaccines until she has completely recovered if vaccines are what you intend to do.
From my reading a dog's normal breathing rate is 15 to 20 per minute. Normal heart beat is 100 to 150 per minute. You can take her pulse under the chest or under the rear leg where it joins the body. Count how many beats in 15 seconds and then multiply by 4 = heartbeat rate.
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Post by sibemom on Aug 19, 2006 13:17:52 GMT -5
There are many things that make a dogs resperations elevate, stress, heat, respritory infections, and YES HEART WORMS. I agree instead of trying to guess why she breaths more than Sadie I would get in tough with the vet you like and see what she has to say about this. She might just have a slight cold, you did say her temp was up RIGHT? I would not fool around with this it might not be heartworms causing this but you want to know that for sure. Good Luck and keep the updates coming. So DO YOU HATE ME FOR TELLING YOU TO SAVE THIS DOG I still think she is in the best hands with you and your husband and once you get through some of the medical issues which YES CAN BE COSTLY you are going to have a great addition to your family I also agree no SPAYING NO VACCINATIONS untill she gets a clean bill of health
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Post by willow on Aug 19, 2006 16:05:53 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it...but did you say Elsie has hw for sure?
Even if she has, there is an alternative to the conventional treatment, which is very hard on the dog and you have to keep them quiet ect.
What more and more Vets are doing now is just giving the Heartguard or Interceptor every month, and every 3 months or so you have them tested until they test negative. In that time you and the dog can go about your normal daily routine, and you do not have to keep them quiet, because it kills them so gradually, there is no danger of killing too many and causing a blocked artery ect., like there is with the conventional method.
That is the route I would go if my dogs tested positive for hw, especially if they were in a weakened condition or had other health problems.
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Post by Dom on Aug 19, 2006 17:53:40 GMT -5
Does Elsie look to be in any physical discomfort? Does it look like she is struggling for air or that she's gasping? When she was asleep, was her breathing rhythmic or laboured? How is she when she awake and moving around? Elsie pretty much breathes the same if she is playing hard or sleeping. It doesn't sound labored. She is always panting when awake but when sleeping she continues breathing fast without the mouth open. It is just so strange to watch Sadie's long deep breathing then turning to see Elsie doing quick shallow ones. Nicole, thanks for the info about the heartbeat. Right now they are out playing so I will check it after the calms down a bit. I am going to set an appointment with the Vet both my husband I like to get her opinion of it. Sibemom, Elsie's temp never went down. It stayed 1-2 degrees higher than normal. Maybe that is normal for her? Naa I don't hate you You just gave me the little push I needed to keep her. My husband's credit card loves you right now! The Vet visit was $250 and not sure how much the rest will be. Honestly, the money doesn't bother my husband or I. We don't make much but like the husband said, "We would probably waste the money anyway so at least it is going to a good cause" Willow, yes she is heartworm positive. I kinda figured she would be with as many mosquitoes around here. The treatment you mentioned is what the Vet recommended. She wants to give her a Heartgard and observe her at the hospital that day. She said eventually the adult heartworms will die off when they hit the end of their life span but the Heartgard will prevent her from getting more. My husband and I are also leaning toward that method. We are going to get a second opinion from the other Vet to see what she thinks. Today we went to a " dog behavior" class at the Holistic store we go to. The trainer remarked she was very well behaved but acted very insecure when anyone approached her. Of course that was to be expected. Elsie is beginning to become comfortable around us. The first two days she would not sleep on her side. She would pop up every time anyone moved. Last night she was laying on her side and wasn't so antsy when we walked around. So far so good. She did have one accident on the carpet. Completely my fault. I should have stuck her in her crate but instead was trying to cook and watch her. Over all things are going very well. Elsie is coming out of her shell and having her around is actually calming Sadie down. ;D The trainer today said we should teach her "watch me", Alpha walk (same concept as Cesar), play tug, and move her crate into our bedroom to build her confidence and for her to bond with us. I tried the tug toy with her today and she spun happily in circles when I let her win. Sadie lets her win sometimes too. Thanks for the advice everyone! I need to go because Sadie is staring at me. I am 45 minutes late with their supper. Plus I need to make sure there are no more frogs in their water dish. They found it very fun to take turns licking on one last night.
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