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Post by Willow on Mar 29, 2004 9:16:00 GMT -5
I talked to my homeopath, and I will not give my dogs Interceptor this yr., because she said if I do, I will undo everything we have done to make them healthy and we will be back to square one.
After a lot of soul searching, I also feel that if I am trying to rid my dogs bodies of chemicals it doesn't make sense to put even *a little bit* back into them, and if I am going to do that, I may as well just give up and go back to feeding Ki**le too and forget the whole thing!
Sure it's scarrey, but when I read of all the people in warm climates (as well as right in our area) who are feeding raw and not vaccinating or giving hw preventative and their dogs are healthier than before, I figure they are on to something and they can't all be wrong.
Of course I will keep you all posted as to how it's working for us.
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Post by amyjo on Mar 29, 2004 18:01:46 GMT -5
Loey - you are so brave - I wish oh I wish I could let go of this and still be confident...I have lots more thinkin' to do on this one! I do see the absurdity of using "preventative poison" but this is just so tough because heartworm is so freaking scarey.
I did reluctantly let go of my frontline this year so I guess it is babysteps and that's okay!
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Post by Nicole on Mar 30, 2004 9:50:51 GMT -5
I am going to play devils advocate for a moment. I understand the concept that with a healthy immune system, a dog will be able to fight diseases such as heartworm etc. Do you also think that this applies to old dogs. In other words doesn't age itself diminish the ability of the immune system to operate properly, even with optimal health. That age alone compromises the immune system, just as it compromises the ability of organs to operate as they would in the young. Isn't this why many old people don't often recover from colds, flu, pnuemonia etc even when they seem to be healthy otherwise, and why the elderly are always the ones who are targeted to take the flu vaccine. Do you think a healthy old dog has an immune system that is capable of protecting itself from heartworm. This thought occured to me because both of you have an older dog and I am a bit worried about this.
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Post by amyjo on Mar 30, 2004 10:37:05 GMT -5
Fair enough - in term of the front line - I can always go back to it if I find I need to...We do not have a tick problem here at home which is my primary concern for disease - fleas are just nasty!
Anyway - when we go on our backpacking trips or visiting friends/family in the country - I understand that with dogs as in people you have a day or two to get the tick off before it can transmit disease. So it is a matter of careful inspection - which I have to do all the time on Elvis anyway - because the chance his cancer could come back.
Regarding Heartworm...it scares the holy hell out of me. I really don't think I'll be messing with not giving the prentative - anyway not this year.... But let's just let go of the "scarey factor" and think critically. Is a 12 year old large breed dog going to live long enough to die from heartworm EVEN IF he does get an infection? My guess is no and so at this point it probably is in his best interest to not introduce poison into his system - but like I said...it is way too hard to let go of the scary factor and I intend to continue the HG this year. I think I have it down to 4-5 doses and that makes me really happy.
To answer your question about elderly people/dogs maybe it has more to do with a lifetime of eating/breathing/drinking crap and injesting or being injected with chemicals than old age.
Case in point - my FIL is type II diabetic..shoulda/coudla been diet controlled but wasn't....now has nerve damage and weakness in his legs. Now on steroids for strength and to help him walk - steroids cause weight gain - weight gain requires higher insulin dose and leads to high BP and cholestorol which leads to more drugs....when all that was really necessary is good nutrition.
I know two totally different scenarios but I think they are more closely related than not.
I don't mean to keep harping on this - but having two dogs with cancer in the same month 2 mos after clean bill of health (full blood panels) and yearly vacc, HW prev and frontline has made me very wary and a little suspicious. It also made me feel very helpless ie: what good are all these expensive tests and "preventative measures" when they certainly didn't catch or or prevent either illness..and actually may have caused thier immune system to be unable to fight off cancer.
I don't know if I can explain this - but I was sitting down to a really nice dinner the other day (pork loin, asparagus and barley casserol) and I was thinking how good it was for me and good tasting and how I am so glad I long ago changed my food habits and stopped eating fast food... I was thinking how good it feels to eat good food..then this huge wave of guilt and shame washed over me about how I had fed my animals all these years. I actually cried (again).... Now that I feed the way I do - I can't believe I used to think that anything GOOD for my animals came from a bag. I tried to imagine feeding myself or my family that way and I just could not - I feel really guilty about my ignorace and my misplaced trust and I want to do every thing I can to make sure that Elvis, Kylie and any other dog in my care has a fighting chance against ANY illness...
Thanks for listening I know I am rambling! Amy
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Post by Willow on Mar 30, 2004 12:29:39 GMT -5
Do you think a healthy old dog has an immune system that is capable of protecting itself from heartworm. This thought occured to me because both of you have an older dog and I am a bit worried about this. Nicki, elderly dogs especially need the rawfeeding, no vacc's/chemicals! Putting garbage food, vacc's etc. into an older dog is suicide for them and they will live a lot longer and have a better quality of life on the right food, no vacc's/chemicals etc. ;D
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Post by Willow on Mar 30, 2004 12:50:57 GMT -5
Amyjo, I understand what you are saying, but there is no guarantee our dogs will not get hw even if giving the preventative and there are natural hw cures that people do use and that work IF their dog should get hw.
In my *soul searching* I decided that I have been through hell and back already with all the skin problems etc. my dogs have had and it's only through homeopathy that they have been cured from all of that, so I am going to take it one step further and trust it to continue to take care of my dogs with the hw issue too. IF my dogs were to contract hw, the natural treatment is safe and effective and cannot be as bad as the hell I already went through with the problems the ki**le, vacc's and chemicals caused them.
There are natural insect repellents that can be safely used on them to keep mosquitos away. I used one last year with great success.
When we hear about another dog coming into a rescue with hw, our *fear* takes over, but we have to remember that dogs that contract hw are UNHEALTHY dogs to begin with, from being ki**ble fed, vaccinated and given chemicles. Plus, the reason we see more hw dogs come into rescues is because usually dogs turned over to rescues are dogs that were not being taken care of properly to begin with and most of them have gone through *god knows what* all their lives before being relinquished to a rescue.
No matter what a dogs age, if they are fed properly, and NOT loaded down with chemicals, they will fare much better than dogs that are.
I had a long discussion with my homeopath about worms and hw and came away very much reassured. She said rawfed dogs seldom get worms of anykind. Because of their improved healthy immune systems, they are able to ward them off, but if they should get them, she uses Panacur because as much as she doesn't like to, it is the most gentle and is effective on the other worms besides round worms, which a lot of natural stuff is not.
That's good enough for me. She's been raising danes for years w/out vacc's/chemicals and has never had a dog with hw (she lives in SC) Or is it NC? Anyway, one of those states with all kinds of nasties lurking out there waiting to attack us and our dogs! She also shows her dogs so takes them to places infested with parvo and other illness' and has never had a dog come down with the crud a lot of other's do either.
That's proof enough for me and I am convinced this is the best way to go for me and my dogs.
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