|
Post by amyjo on Feb 24, 2004 9:58:04 GMT -5
I have just received the Delta Society "Pet Partners" Manual. I have been training Kylie for "visists" and want to get her certified.
I am a little disturbed by an apendix they have added to the manual. In this appendix it states "excess levels of protien and phosphorus are linked to kidney disease which is the number 2 killer of dogs today." and then goes on to say..."since the disease can't be detected until it is in advanced stages, proper nutrition is your best preventative measure."
They stop short of actually reccomending Hill's products ( that is Science Diet right?) but they go on to say that Hill's was founded by a vetrinarian that cured kidney disease in a seeing eye dog by limiting protien and minerals in his diet.
I guess what I want to know is if you limit protein and minerals....what's left? grain? It is just so frustrating... I mean I am really happy with the results of raw feeding (which is pretty much all protien and minerals) and I don't think I believe this stuff .... but it does kind of put a small nagging question in the back of my mind - which I suppose was the intent...
No wonder so many people are confused. The messages are so mixed - and when a national organization like Delta gets behind Hills - it lends them an awful lot of credibility.
|
|
|
Post by Nicole on Feb 24, 2004 11:19:35 GMT -5
"excess levels of protien and phosphorus are linked to kidney disease which is the number 2 killer of dogs today." and then goes on to say..."since the disease can't be detected until it is in advanced stages, proper nutrition is your best preventative measure." That statement is so misleading. Phosphorous is a mineral like calcium which is in the bone and is necessary to build healthy bones. The kidney excretes extra phosphorous. If the kidney is diseased it has trouble excreting the extra phosphorus and this draws calcium from the bones causing weak bones and heart problems from excess calcium deposits. Protein foods have phospherous. So if you have kidney disease it is best to eat foods low in phospherous when the lab values get too high to keep your phospherous/calcium ratio in check. But excess phospherous doesn't cause kidney disease, kidney disease causes excess phospherous because it can't excrete it properly. The kidney disease comes first. And if you are worried about kidney disease you can run yearly blood panels. That statement is a load of BS. Yes it is linked but not the way they would have you believe. Hills is in your manual for the same reason their foods line my vets shelves....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ That's great that you are training Kylie to do this. Is it to visit nursing homes??
|
|
|
Post by Nicole on Feb 24, 2004 11:50:20 GMT -5
And one more thing...
To say the vet cured kidney disease by reducing proteins is also misleading. These people know how to phrase things so that it seems that eliminating the protein will cure the kidney. However, if the disease of the kidney relates to it's filtering abilities then reducing or eliminating the phosphorous may "cure" the excess phospherous. That is what dialysis does. It removes the excess phosphorous and other impurities from the blood. That slows down the "effects" of the disease. But there is no way that is going to cure the filtering disease itself. Kidney disease results from diabetes, high blood pressure and other illnesses not from eating proteins. But as I said if you have kidney disease you would want to have a diet low in phospherous/ protein.
My uncle was on dialysis for years. He died. So I know a little about this. Not everything, but enough to know that that is a well phrased marketing statement.
|
|
|
Post by amyjo on Feb 24, 2004 12:02:31 GMT -5
I guess that is why they use the word "linked" instead of "causes" The way this chapter reads - it sounds like if you feed your dog anything but Hill's you will kill it. I am really disappointed in Delta. Anyway - yes, initially I am going to take her to nursing homes...but I would like to take her to more complex settings as well and later maybe get her involved in Animal Assisted Therapy. She really loves every one and does so many cool tricks she can fetch, hop (eventually I am going to teach her to jump rope), she can roll over to the right, roll over to the left, shake, jump through a hoop, speak...she can also count (kind of she isn't as good as Elvis at this but we are working on it.) I also taught her to growl when I ask her "what do you think of ....?" ( I know I am bragging - I can't help it but she was such a wild woman when she came here). It just seems a shame to keep her to myself. We have alot of issues to work on - herders are so reactionary and sooo fast - and in part of the test someone will walk towards us flailing their arms and yelling - then while this is going on - someone else will bump into us from behind. Its a project
|
|
|
Post by amyjo on Feb 24, 2004 12:05:25 GMT -5
Yes... I went back and looked at the statement ...they didn't say "cured" they said "TREATED".... it's a fine line they walk isn't it?
|
|
|
Post by sibemom on Feb 24, 2004 15:59:26 GMT -5
That is great Amy I havent gone as far as to order the manuel and tapes yet but Blade has been going to the nursing home since the day I got him. Even with being a TARD sometimes he does very well there. As far as the food issues as Nicki said there is more than meets the eye with that. Delta Society/Pet Partners gets a great deal of funding from HILL'S just like Mira gets all their dog food from IAMS and lots of money too. What you are feeding is fine don't worry. If you have concerns then just add some cod liver oil to their diets and things will be well covered. I am really glad you are doing this I think you will find it very rewarding and fun for you and your dog. ;D
|
|
|
Post by amyjo on Feb 24, 2004 16:35:22 GMT -5
You know I understand about the funding... I just think that fear, uncertainty and doubt is a shameful way to sell a product and it shows a real lack of respect for the consumer. You know - if they have such a great product WHY do they have to be so slimey?
|
|
|
Post by sibemom on Feb 24, 2004 17:27:32 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Willow on Feb 25, 2004 10:17:16 GMT -5
Ann, the problem I see with feeding the pups raw, is that when they go to their new homes, they will be put on kibble, because most people will not subscribe to the raw feeding.
I suppose one way to look at it is to say, *well...they were fed a healthy diet while here, anyway*, but in a case like raising/training these pups to go to owner's who are not *required* to feed raw is a lesson in futility.(sp). Even breeder's who only sell their puppies to rawfeeding homes and require the new owner's sign a contract stating this, admit there is no way to *control* this once the puppies/dogs leave them and go to their new homes.
|
|
|
Post by Brooke on Feb 25, 2004 12:44:44 GMT -5
Teach Kylie to hoola hoop....that'll impress em ;D
|
|
|
Post by Willow on Feb 25, 2004 16:10:10 GMT -5
Nicki, thank you for that explanation about protein and kidney disease! I knew protein didn't cause it, but opposers of a raw diet always use that and it makes me sooooo angry! Speaking of that, the other day a couple of friends and I were discussing what we feed our dogs, (one is thinking of going to rawfeeding, so I gave her one of my books on it to read) and the other friend pipes in and says...*My vet just told me Purina has a really good dog food. It has lots of vegetables in it!!!!)
|
|
|
Post by Willow on Feb 25, 2004 16:13:00 GMT -5
Amyjo, that is so kewl what you taught your dogs...I don't have the patience and envy anyone who takes the time to teach their dogs tricks. I started teaching mine to hold the treat on their noses and then flip it in their mouths when I said it was o.k., but I didn't keep it up and I'm sure now have forgotten. I'm such a lazy mommy!!!
|
|
|
Post by sibemom on Feb 25, 2004 16:18:52 GMT -5
You are not LAZY ;D. I know with Blade this was one of our goals but is postponed untill he gets a little older. We still work on some of the service dog things. He is really great with the elderly and so we want to keep going in that direction for therapy work. He has to get through some of these other issues that he is being treated for before I invest in the pet partners training program. It will happen but I'm not pushing it. We still make our regular visits and when I feel he is ready we will work on getting him certified.
|
|
|
Post by amyjo on Feb 25, 2004 16:26:23 GMT -5
Amyjo, that is so kewl what you taught your dogs...I don't have the patience and envy anyone who takes the time to teach their dogs tricks. I started teaching mine to hold the treat on their noses and then flip it in their mouths when I said it was o.k., but I didn't keep it up and I'm sure now have forgotten. I'm such a lazy mommy!!! I actually did it BECAUSE I am lazy... I had a hard time wearing her out physically - I could walk her 5 miles and she would still be ready to GO... I can wear her out lots faster with the mental stuff.
|
|
|
Post by Brooke on Feb 25, 2004 20:06:22 GMT -5
Speaking of that, the other day a couple of friends and I were discussing what we feed our dogs, (one is thinking of going to rawfeeding, so I gave her one of my books on it to read) and the other friend pipes in and says...*My vet just told me Purina has a really good dog food. It has lots of vegetables in it!!!!) Thats the same exact thing my vet said. One of the biggest reasons to confirm that I shouldn't listen to everything my veterinarians say.
|
|