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Post by rogerb on Sept 4, 2005 16:21:02 GMT -5
Our Dolly is now 15 months & goes to Ob training weekly where the session starts with the dogs running freely together for a few minutes. She has one special friend, a black lab bitch with whom she runs & wrestles, but she is not aggressive to any of the others, although she will stand her ground if they show any aggression to her. However, when being walked on-lead, she shows aggression(bark, hackles, teeth shown) to some dogs (on-lead or behind fence/gate) who she meets. There are others she ignores or is friendly towards. She is also 'selective' towards people she meets on walks - some she barks at quite forcefully(no hackles or teeth), but to most she is very friendly. She is really very sweet-natured & I am (almost) 100% sure she wouldn't bite any dog or person who didn't 'attack' her, but the dogs & their owners, + joggers, etc, don't know this If she's taken up to any friendly dog she calms down and wants to play. Our trainer says she is defending us because she thinks she's the alpha, and that more nilf will solve it (eventually), but it's very frustrating (and a bit scary for some people ) We can't figger why she is so selective about who is a 'threat'. Any ideas gratefully rec'd
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Post by sibemom on Sept 4, 2005 18:28:44 GMT -5
Well it's pretty obvious to me that what you are seeing is the nature of the breed. Protective, loyal, and brave. Stepping up the NILIF will definatly help with this problem. Your dog still might be selective on who she likes dog or people, but once she understands that YOU ARE ALPHA not her, things will be fine. She is at the age right now that IMHO, is the strongest of the testing periods. Mine is almost 17 months and she too can still test the waters I still watch my girl pretty close but we have worked very hard on our social skills and that has paid off. Keep working with her, keep showing her that you are in charge and everything will fall into place
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Post by Richard on Sept 4, 2005 19:46:38 GMT -5
First of all, she's a beauty...thanks for the picture.
Secondly, I'll second what Ann said. You're at the age of the teenager for GSD's. It's at this age, that they like to "test the waters" as they say. She'll push it as far as she can (and borrowing an aviation type phrase) right to the edge of the envelope.
They all do it and we and they, thankfully all survive. It just makes for some interesting times while you and her figure out who is running the show.
It's not permanent since eventually they grow out of trying to figure out "who's alpha" and will let you lead the pack.
As Ann also noted, it's the nature of the breed. You just have to convince her that you'll handle the day to day stuff and let her deal with the security issues around the house.
I understand that it's good to let her mix with other dogs but don't be surprised if she tries the "Me Boss" stuff with some of them too.
As I said above, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Stay on your current path. Be a strong alpha to her and keep the NILIF going. GSD's take about 3 years to mature but once past that mark, they are the most marvelous companions you could ever ask for. Not to say they are not before, it's just you have to keep more on top of them.
Rocky and Nikki are coming up to 5 years old in October. Watching them now, it's just like a symphony where all the notes hit the right marks and the flow of the melody is seemless...it's just so wonderful watching them run through the fields together..
You will get there too and the journey will be special and magic and worth every minute. The more you put into them, the more that you'll get out of them. That is what makes this breed so special.
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Post by rogerb on Sept 5, 2005 13:20:31 GMT -5
Thanks, that is encouraging Dolly is actually mainly Belgian SD (Malenois) which probably accounts for her long straight legs, her incredible energy, and very quick reactions She is definitely top-of-the-class for speed! I think BSDs are probably even more 'challenging' than GSDs ! She does have some GSD in her, too, as you surmised.
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Post by Brooke on Sept 5, 2005 13:56:30 GMT -5
She is beautiful!
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Post by Richard on Sept 5, 2005 18:25:20 GMT -5
Dolly is actually mainly Belgian SD (Malenois) which probably accounts for her long straight legs.... Now that I look again, her front legs are too skinny for a GSD...they don't have the "2x4" appearance. But her head and those ears say Sheppy!
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Post by sibemom on Sept 6, 2005 2:55:03 GMT -5
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Post by Richard on Sept 6, 2005 6:39:04 GMT -5
For some strange reason, I have GSD on the brain...oh well! Anyway, Melenois BSD's are high energy dogs as you noted and there is only one speed: FAST and only one way of doing things: INTENSE! That is why they are used for police dogs in a lot of countries. In fact, they are almost as popular as GSD's (oh there is that breed again! HA!) with police officers. I'll still say she's got the mentality and drive that needs to be convinced of who is in charge. If I had a Melenois instead of a GSD (oh my, I just can't stop saying that!), I would of done the training the exact same way I did with Rocky. As we've always said around here (and a previous forum of dubious dishonor that won't be named HA!), just don't put her or you into positions or situations neither of you are ready to handle as yet. Once she comes to the understanding that you can take care of anything that happens when you're together or anyone who approaches - people, other dogs, she will know to back off and let you handle it (comes back to that alpha thing again!) edited for content
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Post by rogerb on Sept 6, 2005 18:25:00 GMT -5
Look at this pic, of a pedigree Malenois: No GSD in that one (in recent history, anyway!), but isn't she like Dolly? ;D Thanks for the positive thoughts, everyone - we have had her a year today, a b'day pressie for my wife
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Post by Brooke on Sept 6, 2005 19:15:12 GMT -5
Suuuuure... she was for the wife... keep saying that outloud and maybe we'll believe you eventually....
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Post by sibemom on Sept 6, 2005 19:27:56 GMT -5
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Post by rogerb on Sept 7, 2005 8:02:27 GMT -5
Suuuuure... she was for the wife... keep saying that out loud and maybe we'll believe you eventually.... Believe it or believe it not, your choice, of course ;D ;D
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Post by rogerb on Nov 9, 2005 17:12:06 GMT -5
Dolly's aggressive behaviour is not improving and it doesn't appear to be her thinking she's protecting us. She will run to the far side of the large fenced field in which we let her run, just to hackle and bark at other dogs.
I am wondering whether the 'free for all' at the start of her lessons could be having a bad effect, as she has got worse since she started that? She's a bit of a bully to some of the more timid, smaller dogs, but does not actually attack them.
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Post by Brooke on Nov 9, 2005 19:50:34 GMT -5
What is the "free for all" training? What exactly have you been working on. What methods have you been using?? The last thing you want to do is give a breed like this "free" anything if thats what you mean. They need to be earning it. Have you read our "Nothing In Life Is Free" thread? dogden.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=articles&action=display&thread=1079736429That is what you need to be working with day in day out all day everyday. It becomes a routine. You start by teaching her and giving her direction and enforcing as a constant thing and eventually she wills start looking to you for direction and not taking things upon herself. In effect you will become the leader Right now she feels she delegates and handles all situations until you teach her otherwise. Doesn't have to be by force...more like guidance and strict rules.
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Post by rogerb on Nov 10, 2005 3:30:41 GMT -5
Please see my first post in this thread, Brooke, it's a 'free-running' session for the first few mins of the obedience classes. I have read NILIF and try to use it all the time. Interestingly, I posted a similar question on the Leerburg site and everybody, so far, has condemned the concept of letting dogs run freely together (but, of course, most of them are training 'working' dogs for protection, etc, and would expect high levels of 'drive' in such animals!) There have been no fights, as most of them are bitches, or very young dogs. I am beginning to think that it's NOT a good idea and that we should opt-out of that part of the session. Iwill discuss with the trainer tomorrow, but he is not the most flexible/receptive person I've met
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