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Post by amyjo on Jul 11, 2005 16:00:21 GMT -5
Well, when you need advise go to the best!
I could use some input on my Aussie's behavior. She is about 2.5 now and trained up the Wazoo.
Once we had our basic stuff down we graduated to an e-collar (mostly for off leash control of over-the-top prey drive). She doesn't wear her e-collar anymore and is solid on recall and will hold a down even out of my sight under some pretty intense distraction.
I am saying all this cause I am not sure the following is a training issue. She has started a troublesome habit of rushing at people and barking at them. This happens most of the time when we are traveling and staying with family. Its almost like she "forgets" who belongs and who doesn't.
Most recently we were staying with family in three nearby vacation cottages. My stepfather let himself in the back door of the one we were staying in without announcing himself or knocking.
She let him have it. Head low, hackels up and barking like a fiend. I heard the commotion and came in the room and said "leave it" she came to me and laid down by my feet and that was the end of it.
There was another incident when some of the family went fishing for the afternoon. She was outside when they returned and did the same routine as they re-entered the yard. Again..."leave it!" worked fine.
I am not really sure how to solve this one. Should I be content if "Leave it" works. We do not live in the same town as our families so she does not get the opportunity to know these people real well.
I have neighbors who enter our house all the time and she doesn't do this...she knows them very well though.
The way she behaves is exactly the way I would hope for her to behave if confronted by a stranger that doesn't belong in our house and I realize some of the guarding instinct is genetic. Should I not worry to much if I can call her off and just work on getting her to know family better?
Amy
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Post by Nicole on Jul 12, 2005 6:19:24 GMT -5
I know it is nice to think that your dog would protect you should a stranger enter uninvited but unless the dog is specifically trained in this I personally do not want this type of behavior. For the very reason that you have noted. The dog cannot make a proper decision as to who is and is not a stranger. And with that comes danger and liability. I think it is appropriate for a dog to alert bark..to be a watch dog. A dog should not be acting like a guard dog unless of course it is a trained guard dog and then if it was it would not be in situations where strangers are popping in. Do you know what I am saying. I would stop this behavior now. The dog can bark to let you know but no aggression. Here is an example of what can go wrong. We have yard men..5 young men that descend on our house and mow etc. Well one day I was not around and I forgot to lock the fence. They decided to come in. Reign came out the dog door. The boys played ball with him while the others cut the lawn...thankfully, he accepted strangers. I say get a gun and shoot if the dog barks in the middle of the night. That is what a pet dog should be for at the most.
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Post by amyjo on Jul 12, 2005 6:46:17 GMT -5
Agreed completely Nicole. I do not labor under the delusion she is protecting me, I think it is more territorial. When these things happen I am not immeadiately present. (other room, around the corner of the house). I think she is assuming responsibility in my absence? dunno? Not sure how to stop it - hence my question about just being happy with the "leave it" working. How would you go about stopping it.
When I said she behaved as I would hope if a stranger were to let themselves in our house. I guess I was thinking as a deterent, not as actual protection since she doesn't get within 5 feet. Totally willing to sacrafice it if it means she doesn't do this to friends and family.
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Post by Nicole on Jul 12, 2005 7:04:24 GMT -5
I think that even if you stopped this, and assuming the dog had some decent nerves that if a stranger were actually hurting you and the dog smelled your fear, the dog would try to protect you again assuming it doesn't run away instead.
I had territorial issues with Sunny and I stopped it by not ever allowing him alone to react and correcting him at the very first signs of an aggressive response. I allowed a few barks and that was that. It worked for people and I am still working on the response to dogs that pass by a sidewalk fence area which Brian doesn't respond to so it has been an impossible task for me. But anyway, I would allow a bark or two and then that is it. The end, not a sound. The behavior is self rewarding..stranger backs up or leaves or stops...so it is one of those things that you have to be there every time to teach the dog that the response may not be one of guarding or aggression.
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Post by willow on Jul 12, 2005 9:05:24 GMT -5
I agree with Nicole on how to (possibly) stop this behavior. Correct the snot out of her when she does it, but I will also tell you my experience with Kara.
I have had her for 6 yrs. now and she has always re-acted the same way....She even barks at Duane when he comes home, and when our neighbors drive in to their driveway, or walk into our yard, eventhough they have been doing it several times a day for the past 6 years! She "alarm" barks (I think that is what it is called) initially when she sees, or just hears noises and whether she knows the people or not. Once they get out of their vehicle or are in the house she is fine and stops barking and is friendly.
When our son and grandsons visited for a week recently, she barked everytime our son walked into the house for the whole week.
When she barks, I let her bark a couple times and then tell her "enough", and if it is a stranger, I make her go lie down so she doesn't scare them to death, but since she has never actually tried to bite anyone, I do not physically correct her. If she ever tried to bite, I would.
I don't know if this is the correct way to handle this, but it has been working for 6 yrs. now, so unless it changes I won't make too big a deal over it. JMO
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Post by willow on Jul 12, 2005 17:35:53 GMT -5
I thought I better explain what I meant by "possibly stop the behavior" in my above post!!! The reason I said "possibly" is because Kara is very stubborn about not barking at all. I can correct her, and correct her, but as soon as I am not there, she's at it again. I think with her it was already so ingrained, because she was 3 1/2 when I got her and had the habit much worse than she does now, so she has come a long way, but she still has to bark, but as I said, as long as she does not make any aggressive moves towards anyone I just let her know when enough is enough. I also see the correct term for her barking is "Alert barking" not "alarm barking".
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Post by sibemom on Jul 12, 2005 18:39:08 GMT -5
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Post by Nicole on Jul 13, 2005 7:47:03 GMT -5
I thought I better explain what I meant by "possibly stop the behavior" in my above post!!! Well you don't have to explain it to me. This is an extremely hard behavior to stop especially in an adult. And I want to make clear that I think alert barking is a desirable thing. I read Amyjo's description as that her dog was trying to run the people off the land and the body language was more extreme than what I would want to see. But with dogs that are innately territorial, you really have a job teaching them the limits and it takes being there every time and knowing exactly what you want the dog to do and not do. You don't want to go too far because well at least for me you want the alert. Sunny has different barks. He barks happily when Brian comes home and runs to find me where ever I am to tell me that he is home. He has almost the same bark for known guests. He has a manic excitement bark when the young girls come over. He has a deep scary bark for strangers. He is allowed to bark until I say stop or the person comes inside. The common thing is that when I say enough..we get a few more barks... he stops. He also stops on his own the second they enter even for a stranger. That is the trade off I made. That is what I want because I don't ever want to lose him because he has hurt someone. That is my fear. I care that people don't get hurt but my prime motivation in all that I do is to make sure that he is not taken from me. I don't know if that seems disturbed but it is the truth.
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Post by willow on Jul 13, 2005 8:58:06 GMT -5
That is so cute about Willow and Sunny! When Duane comes home, once she sees it is him, she is all wiggly and happy too! Also, when I am there, once I greet whom ever is at the door, she stops barking, but if I am in another room or upstairs and don't go and stop her right away, she keeps on barking and it gets more "frantic" sounding until I go to see what is going on and tell her "enough". I can tell by how frantic sounding she gets if the people are here or across the street etc. With Kara, too, she barks immediately when she hears someone come up onto the deck or open the door, no matter who it is. With summer we keep our patio door, which leads onto the screen porch, open so the dogs can go in and out whenever they want. Our neighbors often come over and just walk into the porch, so when she hears them coming up the steps or the door opening, she jumps up and starts barking before she sees who it is. Once she sees who it is, she is fine, but she also barks when she is outside and the other neighbor walks across the street and into our driveway, and she knows it is him!! Once he says, "Kara! What's the matter", she stops and is all wiggly, but initially she barks!! I don't know what is up with that and have often wondered if her eyesight is bad, but if she can see a wood tick way across the room, or a deer way across a field, I don't think there is anything wrong with her eyes! ;D Nicki, I understand completely what you are saying about Sunny. That is why I keep such a close eye on Kara too. Once they bite someone it's all over, so to speak.
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Post by amyjo on Jul 13, 2005 15:56:58 GMT -5
Well... I appreciate all the input. I will have to keep a close eye on the behavoir and try to get a write a better description. ( I am not known for being terribly observant). As I read it now, it might seem like a "sacred" response. She will rush at them but stop short (probably about 5 feet-ish). When I tell her "leave it" she seems almost relieved and turns herself inside out to get back to me. If some one were to say her name during one of these episodes - she would go all wiggles and slobber but unfortunatley, my family is not dog people and they just sort of freeze which I think makes things worse. If I greet the person - there is never an issue. Usually the problem happens with men. It has happened with my step father, step brother and an uncle. Also when we picked her up at the kennel from vacation SHE DID IT TO CLARKE. She was behind the kennel gate and didn't stop till he put out his hand for her to smell and said her name ...at which point she went wiggly. Just about broke his heart in two. The Kennel is woman owned and run and the lady who owns thought maybe it was because Kylie hadn't seen a man in 10 days I am guessing this has reared it's head at 2.5 due to social maturity, and perhaps since she is so well trained we are much more lax about the rules, lots of freedom and very little nilf - maybe that errodes confidence? Dunno. Thanks for all the input. Now I just have to decide what to do or rather how to do it. Amy
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