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Post by cmayes71 on Apr 27, 2004 13:21:12 GMT -5
I have a 5 month old pomeranian. He is neutered. The past week he has been growling when my husband or kids try to pick him up. He never growls at me . It is especially worse if he is sitting next to me and they try to get him. I want to get this under control so it doesn't get worse.
He has not had formal obedience training. There is a class starting on May 12 th. I have a DVD about training a dog and could do it myself but wonder if I need an actual trainer to help me out.
I've talked to the vet and they just said that small breed dogs act ugly. If anyone has any advice please let me know.
Thanks
Cindy
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Post by sibemom on Apr 27, 2004 14:30:21 GMT -5
All dogs can act ugly. Go to the thread about NILIF and read it. Follow the steps one by one. Small or large dog makes no difference it sounds to me like you dog is owner gaurding and this needs to stop NOW. You dog is awfully young to be showing this but I suppose it can happen. Is your dog neutered? If not get it done. I would look into a class but be carful when choosing, you need a good balanced training program. Do you have a dog crate if not get one. If this were me everytime that dog growled at one of my family members it would be crated for at least an hour. All this is explained in the NILIF thread. We are here to help so dont be afraid to ask questions.
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Post by Laura on Apr 27, 2004 15:39:25 GMT -5
Sibemom is absolutely right, ANY dog can be dominant/ aggressive, it's just that we see much more of it in a small breed dog because the owners of little dogs tend to treat it as a small furry child instead of a dog ;D. As I tell my clients, never allow behavior in a 10 lb. Pom that you wouldn't want to see in a 100 lb. Mastiff . And yes, start the pup on NILIF immediately, and by all means, you can train the basic obedience commands yourself, just use whatever motivate the pup, whether it be food or favorite toy. We can get more specific on teaching basic commands if need be.
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Post by Aussienot on Apr 27, 2004 18:07:51 GMT -5
All dogs, regardless of size, need training on how to live by our rules. What you are seeing is not an obedience problem, it's a behavior problem. Obedience training will help cement your Alpha status, but obedience on it's own will not fix the issue of growling.
I read once that "you get the dog you deserve". It not a nice truth but I do think it's true. If you let the little dogs do as they please, they will act, well, like dogs. Your Pom is saying in dog language, " Grrrr- Let me have my way!"
NILIF is about making him undertand, " No, I am the Alpha in charge, and you do not demand or command."
Read about NILIF, and change the way you communicate with your dog. You may have questions about how to put in practice, so let us know how you go.
Just one last thought - is there any possiblity he has a sore spot or injury that could be hurting when he's picked up? It might be good to rule out a medical cause for this issue, although you should still start NILIF.
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Post by sibemom on Apr 27, 2004 19:11:03 GMT -5
See that is just it like Aussie said it dose not matter that they are small. They still need to understand who is in charge. I have seen WAY more dominace issues with small dogs then with large. I think it's not only because their owners treat them softly but I think it is because they are small and if we look at survival of the fittest they have to be twice as tough because of their size. It's like the differences with Horses and ponies. Horses the bigger they are usualy the better tempermant then we have ponies who are just SNOTS! It's like my weird theory why some dogs are food aggresive and some are not. I think it all starts in the litter, (and of course this is just speculation on my part) if they come from a large litter where they have to fight to get to mom's milk and hold on tight so they don't get kicked off I think it might imprint some sort of food gaurding at a young age. So small or not you show that little bugger who the boss is and things will go much better. I would get him checked out to Aussie made a very good point there.
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Post by Laura on Apr 27, 2004 19:54:42 GMT -5
Actually Ann, that bit of speculation is really dead on! Not so much when the pups are on mother's milk (8 teats on a bitch, and litters larger than that aren't too common), but more when they get started on kibble. Most breeders will feed the litter out of one bowl, which can cause all kinds of food and guarding issues.
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Post by sibemom on Apr 27, 2004 20:19:30 GMT -5
OH MY GOD I MADE SENSE Don't tell anyone they might expect things from me. No I do alot of observation and maybe it comes from past animal behavior seminars I have gone to but I think alot of things are imprinted before the pups even leave mom. These behaviors can be changed by proper handleing and training. HMMMM I wonder what is being imprinted on my little girl as we speak :)4 more weeks and I will find out. ;D
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Post by Brooke on Apr 27, 2004 22:07:08 GMT -5
Where in the world do you guys find out about these seminars! I never know where to find out about them.
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Post by Laura on Apr 27, 2004 22:12:35 GMT -5
Believe it or not, many of the top trainers in this country work the lecture circuit, just look for their website and they usually have a listing of where they'll be . Suzanne Clothier, Ian Dunbar, Pamela Reid, Jean Donaldson, just to name a few. Let me check on the APDT board, and I'll see if any are coming your way ;D.
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Post by Brooke on Apr 28, 2004 1:27:27 GMT -5
Cmayes...
I am sensing that you may be holding or carrying your little guy too much. This is an easy habit to get into with small breeds but you have to remember
A. He is fully capable of walking
3. He will become territorial if he does not walk enough or spend a little time on his own such as NOT sitting or laying on you. He should have time to himself to boost his confidence.
and
F. This may be imparing his independence which may be what is causing him to mistrust other people...such as your family. He seeks you out for comfort. Try not to misconstrue his fiesty temper for independence...it actually may be more of a defense.
I tend to believe that the last two are happening and the first may not be happening enough....
Remember you are not his property you are his companion.
If you tend to lay down the law and not allow these things to happen, such as, letting him lay by himself a bit more...letting him walk on his own you may see a big difference. Obedience more than likely will help and NILIF is an EXCELLENT confidence booster and sets a great structure.
I agree with Laura, to try and think about him the same as you would a 100 lb mastif. That is the best advice for this issue you could get. NILIF is a great starter and should help immensely.
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Post by Willow on Apr 28, 2004 9:05:07 GMT -5
I think alot of things are imprinted before the pups even leave mom. Ann, you are absolutely correct, but whether a pup will tend to be submissive or aggressive etc., is determined largely by what goes on in the litter after the pups turn 7 weeks old. On the 49th day they suddenly become aware of their surroundings, and this is why I still believe it's best to pick up your puppy on the 49th day...no sooner, no later. If taken home on that day, he will bond with you much better than if you wait until 8 or 9 weeks or later and will not have had the chance to develop undesirable tendencies, because I also firmly believe the longer a puppy is left in the litter, the more detrimental it is, because after 7 weeks is when the puppies really start forming their personalities, due to what happens to them in the litter. For instance: If you have a puppy that tends to be submissive and it gets picked on all the time by it's litter mates, as the puppies grow bigger and stronger, or gets shoved from the food dish, it will either become extremely timid or start to show aggression, either food aggression or fear aggression. If the bolder pup(s) are kept in the litter after 7 weeks and allowed to "beat up", so to speak, their litter mates, these are the ones that go on to show dominance aggression. That's why it really bother's me when I hear breeder's say they keep the puppies in the litter until they are 8 weeks, 10 weeks or older, and that is one very important reason why I believe we are seeing more aggression. Puppies go through different stages at different ages and it happens like clockwork, because it is programmed in to them, so it's important to know at what age these stages take place and what to do to insure you will have a well adjusted dog as an adult, provided of course, you know what to do and what not to do during these stages of development. What you do or do not do during these stages can be just as detrimental as what the litter mates do. I believe genetics, coupled with an owner who does not understand the stages of development can be very detrimental too. As an example: At 8 weeks or 10 weeks you picked the little guy hanging by itself in the corner because you felt sorry for it. It seems to be afraid of the other puppies and gets picked on. You bring it home and think: "I am going to have to socialize this little guy with lots of other dogs to get it over this". This is one of the biggest mistakes people make. All that does is make this little guy more afraid of other dogs. Or: At 8 or 10 weeks you pick the biggest, toughest puppy. "Look how bold he is and how he intimidates all the other's in the litter. He's not afraid of anything. I'll be able to take him anywhere." Well, this puppy has learned that he is bigger and stronger and is now the "bully" of the litter. Depending on what happens after you take him home, he can either remain the bully and be dominant aggressive, or if he meets someone bigger and tougher than he is, during the "fear" stage, because you felt he also needed to be "socialized" with a lot of other dogs, he can become fear aggressive. That is why I never pick the most timid from the litter or the boldest, but pick a "middle of the road" puppy, and try to get it on the 49th day. It makes life a lot easier and you won't be trying to overcome tendencies that have already been developed. You will have the inherited traits, of course, but if you have a good understanding of the stages of development, you can overcome these to a large extent by not exposing the puppy to other dogs, or to things that terrify him during the "fear" phase.
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Post by sibemom on May 1, 2004 18:37:20 GMT -5
You know as I think back I am surprised that Blade turned out as well as he did. If you remember when I first joined the short bus I talked about how he had been attacked by two Pit's the very day we brought him home at 12 weeks, then there was the aggresive dog in the first crazy training class when he was 5 months old, then there were some issues at the next kennel club class with dogs and that was when he was 7 months old. I think some of these things attributed to some of the problems I had with him. I really am surprised that he does not have a hatred for other dogs but he does'nt. I read somewhere that all it takes is for a pup to get attacked one time by another dog and it makes them dog aggresive. I do not believe that. I think if you handle it correctly afterward you can prevent that from sticking with them
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Post by Nicole on May 2, 2004 9:14:39 GMT -5
I read somewhere that all it takes is for a pup to get attacked one time by another dog and it makes them dog aggresive. I do not believe that. I think if you handle it correctly afterward you can prevent that from sticking with them Unfortunately, in most of these types of situations the aggression does not show until the dog reaches social maturity which can be as late as 2 1/2 years old. Although I do think that temperment, genetics and environment can play a role in the outcome. I certainly hope that Blade continues to be dog friendly forever!!
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