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Post by sibemom on Sept 10, 2006 7:46:44 GMT -5
I have been very careful about when and where I use my E Collars, and I have been very responsable in learning all correct methods in using them. Raven is a hard head, and I am still of the belief that you should only use the E Collar to re enforce already known comands. Well she has the WORST RECALL of any dog I have ever trained or owned. YES even worse then a SIBE She is just SOOOOOO distracted and flips me that furry finger when ever she chooses. Well I use the E Collar on Willow and a couple times have used it on Brody, not to much on him except for the crittering issues, and both of them have shown very favorable after a few sessions. In fact all I have to do is show them the collar and THINGS SNAP RIGHT INTO PLACE Raven knows COME we have worked on that right from the start and believe me we have WORKED AND WORKED AND WORKED on it, and On leash or on a long line She is 100%. What I do not have with her is a reliable off leash recall and that is where the E Collar comes in. Over the past few days we have done a few sessions and you know what ;D We now have a almost perfect response. It did not take to much at all and only took a very light stim which I then dropped down to a vibration. I was so pleased at her response to the collar and the fact that it did not take to long for her to get the CLUE We will keep working on this for awhile and then I will not turn the collar on and see if she responds the same, then we will work on it without the collar. I do not understand why so many people are against this particular training tool if used the correct way. Of course anything can be abused but the ease and certainty of the response is wonderful. I have even used it to re enforce NO BARK, and again a wonderful tool to have. I also own the automatic no bark collars not my favorite but sometimes I have to use them to keep my neighbors HAPPY and again after a few times of getting the stim I use a dummy collar and they are still just as quiet. This is why I think it is so important to make sure the dog knows the command by doing you leash work with them prior to using it.
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Post by kaos on Sept 10, 2006 21:42:05 GMT -5
Sibemom, unlike most of the other posters here I am not a fan of the e-collar, but I appreiciate you posting about your own experience, and I am really happy to hear that you have had success and that you have obviously used it responsibly only to reinforce recalls which have already been thoroughly trained.
It's always useful to hear about accounts of training that has succeeded, but for me personally the use of an e-collar would be a last resort. Having said that, perhaps it was a last resort for you too for this particular dog that had resisted previous training that your other dogs have responded to.
I totally agree that just about all training aids can be misused.
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Post by Am on Sept 11, 2006 0:24:31 GMT -5
If you are a trainer who don't like to correct I can certainly see why you wouldn't like an e-collar, but on the other hand if you are going to correct then I personally don't think an e-collar is much different to any other correction collar. Like, if you're going to give a dog a "level 5" correction, I don't think it's any different whether you give one on an e-collar or a pinch collar or whatever. The only difference is that the e-collar has the advantage of working at a distance, which can be handy (as long as you've conditioned the dog to the collar on a long line first, of course!) JMO.
As an aside, I've heard of some good trainers using e-collars as teaching tools. The idea being to turn the collar down really low so it merely feels like a buzzing instead of giving any pain, then conditioning it as a marker - sort of like an anti-clicker, to tell the dog that what he's doing currently isn't correct and won't be rewarded. Has anyone got any experience with this? It sounded really interesting to me, but I couldn't really see any advantage over using a verbal marker.
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Post by willow on Sept 11, 2006 4:26:14 GMT -5
As an aside, I've heard of some good trainers using e-collars as teaching tools. The idea being to turn the collar down really low so it merely feels like a buzzing instead of giving any pain, then conditioning it as a marker - sort of like an anti-clicker, to tell the dog that what he's doing currently isn't correct and won't be rewarded. Has anyone got any experience with this? It sounded really interesting to me, but I couldn't really see any advantage over using a verbal marker. I don't have any personal experience with using an e-collar in this way, but while I think e-collars have their place, I am not in favor of using them in this way, because just as with click/treat training, I feel that eventually some thing of "higher value" than the treat will come along and the dog will blow you off. I know that Sibemom is a responsible/knowledgable owner and won't misuse the e-collar, but over the years I have seen e-collars misused and over used by professional trainers and owners alike who want a fast way to "train" their dogs or a "quick fix" and many otherwise good dogs have been ruined, which has turned me off on their use too. Used correctly and responsibly they are a wonderful training tool and in the case of a dog who knows the recall command but "blows you off" when they are off leash/line, they can be invaluable in impressing on the dog the fact that you are always in control of them, even at a distance. Better to use an e-collar than to have to always keep them on lead or have them run off and get killed.
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