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Post by Dom on Aug 20, 2006 0:27:17 GMT -5
I will be honest. After getting Elsie I was kinda hurt that Sadie would follow Elsie and ignore me at times (not commands). The "new feeling" of Elsie is kinda wearing off of Sadie and she returned back to my side when I am walking the yard or am in the house. Sadie still gets along great with Elsie though.
Elsie has started barking or growling if she hears someone scream (especailly female voice) on the TV. It isn't a "I will kill you growl or bark" it is more of an alert.
Tonight I was watching TV with Sadie on her cushion on the couch and I was teaching Elsie "watch me" on the opposite end of the L couch. Someone screamed on TV and Elsie growled. Sadie jumped off the couch, ran to where we were at and did a low pitch short growl with one leg over her back end. Elsie immediately hit the ground. I didn't know what to do at that time so I didn't correct either one of them but stood up and said "easy" and moved forward.
I know Elsie was not growling at me but the TV noise. Sadie was almost asleep and when she heard Elsie growl at my feet she reacted. I am not sure if she thought Elsie was growling at me or what. I have NEVER had Sadie growl at Doogie so it kinda surprised me.
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Post by willow on Aug 20, 2006 9:44:31 GMT -5
First of all, personally, I don't feel dogs should be on furniture/beds period. Even if they will readily get off when you tell them to with seemingly no problem, I feel just the fact that they are allowed up on the same level as the "pack leader" lends itself to not respecting you as they should. I have seen it hundreds of times in the breed rescues I volunteered with. Nine times out of ten it eventually led to trouble. Plus I don't like it for hygienic reasons. I have to deal with enough dog slobber, hair and dog poop on a daily basis as it is, and I have a weak stomach where that stuff is concerned, without having it all over my furniture/beds. But to each his own. As far as letting one dog correct another one. It is going to happen when you have more than one dog, but I always step in and stop the correcting dog just to let them both know I am the pack leader and I am in charge. All I have to do is say, "hey", and it is over! As far as feeding one dog before the other, having the more dominant one go out the door first ect....I have never done that and I know Cesar says it is not necessary either. All I am concerned with is that they both respect me as pack leader. Elsie will adjust to living in the house rapidly as long as she feels secure in her new "pack" and it is up to you to make her feel that way. I have also experienced that dogs who were formerly outside only dogs housebreak more easily and are calmer/quieter in the house, as long as you don't do things to excite them. Kara was 3 when I got her and was an outside dog. Buddy was 7 when I got him and previously had been tied outside 24/7(except when he got loose), which led to how I happened to get him. Both of them adjusted to living inside easily and now the only time Buddy goes out is to eat his RMB's, go potty, go for our walk, or when I am outside in the yard. Otherwise he prefers to be inside near me. Bottom line: Don't obsess over things, worry excessively or "look" for trouble or you will convey your feelings to your dogs. If you stay calm and assertive, you will have well adjusted dogs. ;D
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Post by masha on Aug 25, 2006 7:41:49 GMT -5
Hi Willow - Do you think that as pack leader, one should not allow one dog to correct another, regardless of the situation, who's where in the hierarchy etc - basically - " I'm in charge, and if anyone is in need of correction, I'll do it" ? Sort of like if one child tries to reprimand another - as a parent, you might say - I get to do the reprimanding around here?
But some people who have a lot of dogs - the top dog is very much in charge of the pack. It seems to be a sort of "you leave me alone to keep them in line, and I wont challenge YOU as well" type understanding!
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Post by Aussienot on Aug 25, 2006 23:26:12 GMT -5
Like many dog things, this is not a yes or no question. I think whether or not I would let one dog correct another dog depends on a couple of factors.
I would allow one dog to correct another is if the offender was a puppy. I think it is important for puppies to learn social manners around dogs as well as social manners around humans. Learning how to relate to dogs outside of the littermates requires a certain amount of trial and error. I think only another dog can teach dog social skills.
But for adolescent dogs and older dogs in a two or three dog family, yes, correct it. I'm the only one that gets to apply the rules. One dog stepping in to correct another dog is usurping part of my role as leader, and I wouldn't let it happen as long as I am in charge.
But I see Masha's point - if I had nine or ten dogs, I could probably use some help and would appreciate the top dog giving me a hand. As long as I had the top dog's respect.
So the answer is situational and flexible.
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Post by willow on Aug 26, 2006 9:33:19 GMT -5
I agree with Aussie, but again, you have to be in charge and make sure that the older dog is only correcting when the puppy needs it, for instance, getting too mouthy, or not leaving the older dog alone when he/she clearly signals "games over", and it isn't because the older dog just doesn't like the puppy period and isn't going to tolerate it in the same room etc. ( situational and flexible as Aussie said). Disagreements can happen so quickly...for instance, just yesterday Buddy stepped on Kara as he passed her...she yelped, & growled and I did not correct her for that. Who likes to be rudely stepped on? Again, thats where the "situational and flexible" as Aussie says, comes into play. But as far as trying to figure out which dog is the next dominant in line under me, and so on and treating them accordingly....next dominant goes out the door first after me, gets fed first....forgetaboutit! In the first place, with just two dogs dominancy seems to change situationally too and I can't say with 100% certainty which of my dogs is the more dominant over the other and I can't imagine trying to figure out pack order with a bunch of dogs. As pack leader I will allow an occassional growl, and even a snap, depending on the situation. If it is because the other dog did something like Buddy did...step on the other dog, I don't step in, but if Kara wants to resource guard the bag of dog food and growls if Buddy or a foster dog gets near it, I don't allow that. As pack leader I am the one who "owns" the food and tells other pack members when they will eat. As I also said, I step in front of (body block) the offending dog and use "Hey" so there is no mistake who I am correcting, if one corrects the other when they shouldn't, or if it looks like things might escalate, and my dogs know I mean business and they immediately retreat to their own corners. ;D
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