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Post by Brooke on Apr 12, 2004 18:46:41 GMT -5
Ok
I had a volunteer interview today at the local animal control. They seem to do more purely positive there, using head halters and things like that. I had given her our boards address to check out on my application. So she got to check it out before the interview. She didn't seem too disappointed like I had thought she may have been since we use types of training aside from purely positive. She didn't say much either way though.
I may want to go for the kennel tech position over the training position. I think I may be able to do more with the experience possibly. I was impressed the facilities. They were really clean. As of right now they have room to spare but I guess the busy season is on it's way.
She seemed to really want me to ask questions but on some things I hesitated because she seemed somewhat defensive. It seemed to be your basic "no kill" shelter. We talked a little about this message board and the things I've learned off it. About my experiences including with Peeka. Somehow we got on the subject of people fostering and this is why I'm writing this.
She said that with my issues with Peeka in the past that we would not be good candidates for fostering. That kind of bothered me because I look forward to doing so eventually. Peeka is a great dog. We've come so far with her and she does wonderfully with other dogs now. While we will always have dominance issues with her she is great it's not something we can't work with and through. She's at a livable point right now.
I can certainly understand her reasoning with liabilities it just seems like there wasn't any possiblity for improvement in her eyes. Maybe thats part of the job. It just bugs me to see people can put such a permanent title on a dog. Many, not all, dogs can be conditioned, dogs can be worked with and dogs are going to be dogs as far as ranking and things that can be worked with and through.
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Post by amyjo on Apr 12, 2004 19:57:56 GMT -5
Brooke - this really bothers me... I know Peeka is a good dog (now) and I know you are a good handler and I know that any dog entrusted into your care would be well cared for and protected.
I think it is shortsighted that they would eliminate you as a candidate for fostering just because you own a dog that isn't little miss perfect all the time.
It is just one more example of pie-in-the sky PP mentality that basically writes off dogs that can't be trained in the PP way. It really really bugs me.
If a foster dog can't be placed in a home where a well trained but dominant dog like Peeka lives and a damn good trainer resides - then what happens when the untrained Peeka's of the world come into shelters? Does the "no-kill" shelter ship them off to kill shelters or what? They obviouslly can't according to their policies go into foster care...can they even be adopted out?
You should not be discouraged by the shortsighted policies of one organization. You have alot to give and you will figure out how to do it.
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Post by Aussienot on Apr 12, 2004 20:04:06 GMT -5
One thing I've noticed with the 'No Kill Do-gooders' the 'Purely Positive Posse' and the "Clicker Cliques' is they tend to see things in black and white. Full stop.
It's hard for a balanced person with a wealth of experience to understand a one-dimentional line of thinking. To believe that there is only one way of relating, one size fits all, every dog will learn with this training style is naive, at best.
In my opinion, the more dog behavior experience you have, and learn from, the better dog handler you will be. The more tools you have in your training tool box, the better trainer you will be.
I agree that you would be an ideal foster home because of your experience with Peeka. The whole process of rescue and fostering should be about redemption and growth. But in my experience, a number of the rescue agencies are more about promoting a single line of thinking.
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Post by amyjo on Apr 12, 2004 20:18:10 GMT -5
There is one of these PP rescues near me and I offered to foster for them before I got Gracie - they said Nope because when they asked about my training methods - I was honest....
Anyway I still go in there to look at and play with the dogs especially they hyper Borders and JRT's I feel so bad for them - anyway one day I was in there and one of the employees had brought her PP/HeadHalter trained Pit Bull in. He jumped all over the place including ON people and then peed on the floor. I just shook my head and left.
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Post by Brooke on Apr 13, 2004 2:05:44 GMT -5
First, I will say by an amazing coincidence...there is an American Cocker Spaniel named Beau at the top of the screen right now as I am writing this Some of you who caught the documentary Shelter Dogs, may or may not catch that by the end of this. I can't really even remember how we got on the topic of fostering. I didn't bring it up as a personal interest at all after or during the interview. The comment just kind of came out of left feild but it deflated my balloon I guess a little. Because of my experience with Peeka that was a little bit why I had considered fostering later. Just the fact that I have worked so much so hard with her had sparked that desire in me to work with the hard case dogs. I'd almost for some strange reason prefer to work with them over the easy dogs I think. Maybe it's just the rewards seem more full-filling to me?? To see a dog progress that much more? I think just having Peeka come this far is just as big as an accomplishment to me as having Kuma proofed and trained completely and perfectly. (with the continued training OF COURSE ;D ) I have worked so hard with Peeka. That just really hurt my ego I guess. She is so great with other dogs and I think she is at a great place where not only would she do great but I think it would benefit her even more at this point. I was just a little taken aback. It was like taking away all the hard work I had done and discrediting it. I can't hardly blame her though I guess. She doesn't know first hand the journey we've traveled. I was kind of feeling the same thing about the whole experience thing though Amyjo. In another way, I guess I'm not all that surprised being that they are "no kill" they probably don't foster out many hard dominance or aggression cases due to liablity. She used that word a lot. I was afriad to ask about how many of those cases they fostered out because she seemed a bit defensive about the no kill term. Pit Bulls are definately a no-go. She seemed very adamently against Pits because they are all bred for aggression. She proudly stated that she was trained in temperament testing by SS herself. That I think was what stung the most. As thrilled as I'm sure some of you are about that, please remember... I'm mainly considering the position as experience to possibly help me in other areas later. I'm doing this with an open mind. As a wise woman once told me "you can't save them all" I really am working hard on remembering that one. In any case whether I decide to volunteer or not the interview was quite a learning experience in itself. We had planned a 1 hour interview and it ended up being about 2-2 1/2 hours. I was happy that I did go. The facilities are beautiful and their dogs/animals actually seemed really happy. She did have a lot to be proud of. It looked as though they had an excellent regular turnout for volunteers. She said they average about 7 adoptions a day and 2 bite cases a day. At first I would be offering about 2 hours a week with the possiblity of more hours once I got in and decided whether I would like to offer more. Paid positions you must have a degree unless no one with one comes forward to take the position which sounds like it rarely happens.
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Post by sibemom on Apr 13, 2004 5:48:11 GMT -5
This bother me greatly. When I took dogs in there were never questions about the my ability to keep my own dogs under controll. When I started helping out at our local shelter it was hard for me to keep a civil tounge and ended up not. These people had no clue even to what breed a dog was. They would call me to come in and tell them what mix they were. In their eyes all black dogs were Labs, all yellow long coated were Goldens, and if it had a stubby snout it was pit. I don't help them much anymore due to lack of time but mostly due to their ignorance. They are not no kill but their prime liability is trying to place dogs that would be better off PTS. Their return rate is well over the top percentage wise. I tried to change their methods slowly but they have their minds made up. There is no reason you would not be a good foster home, because you keep controll of your own personal dogs. If you decide to do this keep yourself focused on what you know works, listen to their methods but again you know what you are doing degree or not. They still call me when they get a Sibe in but the last time I passed. If I spend my time with a dog and then give them a heartfelt opinion they dont listen anyway and I am not going to be involved with someone getting hurt. Brooke you are a great traininer and if they can't see that you would make a world of difference in those dogs lives then it is their loss
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Post by Nicole on Apr 13, 2004 8:39:38 GMT -5
I really don't understand why a past issue should effect your ability to foster now. That is the whole point of training. Peeka was a young pup at the time and because of you and your hard work and experience she is now a different dog. So what is the problem. Please don't let one persons statement effect your confidence or desire to foster. There are many rescues out there that would be very thankful and lucky to have you on board.
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Post by packerdogs on Apr 13, 2004 8:43:24 GMT -5
Oh boy Brooke, sounds a lot like Wisconsin Humane Society up here – another humane society that thinks Sue Sternberg is the answer to all their prayers. I’m just so confused how they can be no-kill when they don’t adopt out pit bulls? Or do they get all their dogs elsewhere and just keep the perfect ones? That’s what WHS does, rarely a dog over 2 years old, and they have to be perfect or they’re shipped back to where they came from. Aren’t there any rescues in your area you could foster for? While there are some rescues with whacky policies, most would jump for joy at adding another foster home! You’re in Indiana now right? Central Indiana Lab Rescue is a very good rescue if you wanted to try fostering for them. Whoever you foster for, or volunteer for, you need to agree with most of their policies. Now, listen closely, because this is VERY important. You will not last if you do not agree with the way they run. Pick anything (e-collars, electric fences, prong collars, children, fences, other dogs, senior citizens). I’ll use senior citizens for an example – there are MANY rescues that will not adopt to seniors, if you believe they should, there is a conflict of interest there and there will come a time, or many times, when there will be heated arguments over this topic, and most likely you will end up quitting anyway, and may be completely discouraged to ever join another rescue again. I know some rules that bother me are ages – some won’t adopt to a family with children under 7, some won’t adopt to anyone that isn’t 21 or over (huh?, we can go to war when we’re 18, but can’t adopt a damn dog?). One of our best placements was with a 19 year old mentally handicapped man who lived on his own (a block from his mom , and adopted a dog from us. It’s a perfect match – the guy is ALWAYS home, doesn’t do much of anything unless his dog is with him. A dog couldn’t ask for a better owner. Also, he works 2 hours a day at a training kennel, so the dog comes with, and any problems he has, the owners help him with. Now, if I had been volunteering for another rescue that said no to this adopter, it would piss me off enough to quit, that’s for sure! We have also had volunteers quit our rescue for not agreeing with our policies and views. It’s fine both ways, it is just best to start out agreeing with most of the rescues policies, it makes it easier for everyone! Amyjo – we asked on our volunteer app what kind of training they use and what kind of collar. We are actually HOPING for people who say prong collars and will really screen someone much more thoroughly and possibly deny them if they say clicker, gentle leader only and are against prongs or any type of correction. These are the people that get a foster and the dog walks all over them, sleeps on their bed and then they wonder why the dog growls at them when they tell them to get off the bed. Purely positive does not work on all dogs, it works on soft dogs and probably a lot of middle of the road dogs, but the middle dogs are the ones you see misbehaving and acting like fools out in public. I could go on and on forever and ever, I’m just truly against people that think gentle leaders and clickers can create a well rounded dog. Cathy
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Post by Laura on Apr 13, 2004 11:11:06 GMT -5
Sigh, maybe you'd better toss out my PM . Nah, I'd still do it ;D. But Cathy's right, if they're anything like the shelters who think SS walks on water, you might have a tough time being there. And she's right about fostering too, everyone who fosters for Husky House uses any and all methods of training, I have to say common sense is the biggest tool ;D that we all have in common. A rarity in the world of rescue . Usually the reason why we end up with them in the first place .
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