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Post by Nicole on Apr 7, 2004 15:20:14 GMT -5
Oh I love how this is going. Amyjo, you are an
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Post by sibemom on Apr 7, 2004 15:29:35 GMT -5
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Post by amyjo on Apr 7, 2004 16:02:09 GMT -5
ANNNNNNN! I had to promise my hubby I wouldn't do that! Anyway - she is supposed to be a food stealer. I set her up with a peanut butter sandwhich on my kitchen counter...it has been there all day - she hasn't so much as sniffed at it!
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Post by amyjo on Apr 8, 2004 17:24:27 GMT -5
Hey! Thanks for the tip on the undercoat rake! It even works on Elvis he has some of that shep hair! Anyway Gracie Good Girl looks more beautiful already!
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Post by amyjo on Apr 9, 2004 12:49:39 GMT -5
Well - I had a dog fight on my hands at the park today...I had the two "girls" with me - Kylie was on her e-collar and Gracie was dragging a 30' lead. I was hoping to show Gracie the whole frisbee thing - well I always let Kylie do the zoomies when we get there...Gracie was zooming right behind her and then Klyie turned and it was ON! I figure it is now day four and Kylie figures Gracie is here to stay so she better work out her place...anyway Kylie clearly won the fight was on top and going for her neck - Gracie was still scrapping though but clearly losing - I was yelling NO and STOP IT and I tried to get Kylie's legs to do the wheelbarrow but she was moving so fast - I tried to grab her scruff but I just kept getting handfuls of hair - I finnally had to kick my own dog in the ribs - that didn't work either - I was afraid to use the "zapper" I thought I would just make everything worse if Gracie "won" with my help.... so finally I got right in it and got Kylie's scruff and pulled her and then threw her off... I told them both they were very bad and made them do a long down only about three feet apart... Then we continued with our play/training session I played with one at a time while I made the other do a down and that worked out well - then they walked home together side by side like it never happened.
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Post by Nicole on Apr 9, 2004 12:59:19 GMT -5
Wow Amyjo You handled that great. It does sound like a dominance scuffle. If it wasn't there most definately would have been blood. I believe that chasing can be a show of dominance especially for dogs who are not yet friends and thus are not necessarily comfortable with any form of play. Dogs that know their place and have a trust bond can usually get away with dominant acts during play. From your description Gracie was the chaser and Kylie was probably saying don't even think that you are above me. Very close supervision, Kylie won she gets attention first etc. You already know all of this.
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Post by amyjo on Apr 9, 2004 13:15:33 GMT -5
Damn...Is there no end to my ignorance? I thought it was good that Gracie was chasing - I was happy they were "playing" together... I thought Kylie was "showing Gracie" how to play. Crap. Somebody reccomend a good book. Please.
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Post by Laura on Apr 9, 2004 14:29:19 GMT -5
Amyjo, don't let this shake you, it's scary to watch but it happens all the time and it's certainly not a reflection of your knowledge and handler abilities!This kind of thing happens all the time when you foster, especially with the first few dogs you take in, your own two aren't quite sure what the deal is. Nicki hit it dead on, sounds like a dominance issue, nothing more. First off, any damage done? Probably not, right? There's two schools of thought of this , one is to let them work it out and find their own position in the pack. The second is that you're the alpha at all times, and no fighting is allowed ever. I lean more towards the latter myself, or as my husband puts it, I'm the biggest alpha bitch in this house ! The dogs are allowed to establish their higher position with warnings, no more. And when I have older dogs in the house, I step up the NILIF with all of them. I do find it's makes a difference with the subtle stuff like who gets fed first, goes out the door, etc. My own dogs get corrected for teeing off on another dog or starting any real fights. So don't worry, they'll be fine! As for some good reading material, I liked "The Other End Of The Leash" by McConnell, and "Culture Clash" by Donaldson, both really good insights on how the furry kids really think.
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Post by sibemom on Apr 9, 2004 16:10:20 GMT -5
Laura and Nicki took the words right out of my mouth. I always let the dogs work things out for themselves of course still letting them know that I was in charge and if it got rough they would be corrected. Sometimes all it takes is for the "Head Dog" to let the "Under dog" know that certain things are not acceptable. I don't think Gracie is a status seeking canine she is just new to the interactions with other dogs and new to your pack. I am sure this will not be the last time something like this happens but as long as you deal with it and stop it before it get brutal things will work out great. It can be unsetteling though the first time you see it happen. The book by Dr. M is good I have all of hers. Yes she is more into the PP training but she gives you an insight to how dogs think and react. I enjoy reading her opinions not always agreeing with them but she makes good sense.
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Post by amyjo on Apr 10, 2004 12:35:37 GMT -5
Oh I totally aggree...there was no status seeking on Gracie's part - Kylie just hauled off and asserted her place - strange she ever felt the need too though - I was very very careful to respect the Elvis, Kylie, Gracie order...but oh well - it's done and they both seem happier for it - as wierd as that sounds....
Anyway I have some GREAT news! There is a guy coming to look at Gracie next week. He either wants her for himself and his wife (she works from home, they have no kids and only one other dog). Or for his parents. His dad is early retired for health reasons and needs a companion and is under doctors orders to walk everyday!
Both the guy and his mom work at the same nursing home and if either of them graduate from Pet Partners program with Gracie - she can go to work EVERY SINGLE DAY if they want -
This dog is going to have a job and soooo much attention! She is the PERFECT nursing home doggie!
Please if anybody has an adoption agreement I can plagerize I would much appreciate it...This was a private thingy I did on my own. I mainly want to make sure I get the dog back if they ever have to get rid of her!
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Post by Nicole on Apr 10, 2004 13:53:52 GMT -5
That's great news!! How perfect. Take a look at this agreement. www.karaworld.com/adptdog.htmlYou change it around any way you want. I just punched in dog adoption agreement in Google and up popped a bunch of them. ;D
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Post by Laura on Apr 10, 2004 14:14:22 GMT -5
Amyjo, check your e-mail, I'll send you ours , just modify it with your name, etc.
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Post by amyjo on Apr 13, 2004 18:03:40 GMT -5
Well this didn't work out like I thought it would.. The younger couple's dog is 13 and deaf and has always been an only dog and I can understand they decided not to put her out. The older couple rejected Gracie because she has long hair and they don't want to have it all over their house. They want a short haired dog so it will be easy to clean up after. I am annoyed because dogs are not interchangeable - this dog is so sweet and so trainable They will have to look a long time to find her match. Today we learned to jump through the hoop and learned to leave a treat on her paw and wait for an "oaky!" She is now automatically sitting to go outside and automatically sitting for her meals with out being told. I had her at the park over the weekend and was able to remove the long line. She has a great recall - even when chasing a squirrell or engaged in sniffing...this dog lives to please! I am not giving up - this was just our first attempt at finding a home and I contacted the orgs in our area that do hospital visists etc to see if anyone is looking for a dog to do that type of work.
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Post by Nicole on Apr 13, 2004 20:44:53 GMT -5
Awwwwww. That is a shame. But I know because you have her that she will eventually find a great home.
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Post by packerdogs on Apr 14, 2004 9:35:56 GMT -5
Chasing is definitely a dominance thing. When we get new fosters in and they play fetch with my dogs, my dogs throw and absolute fit if the new foster runs with them. Once they get to know the foster, usually takes about 2 weeks, they won’t get in the little scuffles and growls, and they will actually play and wrestle with the new foster. As for Kylie showing her how to play, keep doing it. Until Kylie is more comfortable with Gracie, keep her tied out so she can’t get all worked up and try to chase or wrestle with Kylie again. I do this with most new fosters, usually I’ll keep them behind the fence, and they can watch from there. For problem dogs (runners, fighters, etc.), having them watch what the other dogs do for a couple of weeks usually solves their problems. And, while the fights may sound and look horrible, if no blood was drawn, it was all just show. There haven’t really been too many fights at my place considering all the damn dogs I’ve had there, but when it happens, I just try to grab the aggressor by the collar and take him off the other dog. I’ve only had one turn on me, he ended up getting put down eventually anyway, he was a mean dog. Also, I’ve found if you do have a leash, use it as a whip on their butt. I had to do this the other day with the stray at my house that went after a new dog. I happened to have a leash in my hand that I just took off the new dog, and all it took was one crack on the butt and the fight was over. I lean toward the school of thought of letting the dogs work it out to some extent, with always the person breaking up/stopping the fight. But only if you know your dog will not sink their teeth in another dog during a normal scuffle. Another foster home of ours has an older dog that if he even has another dog growl at him he will just sink his teeth into the other dog immediately, he has no bite inhibition at all. Sorry I ramble so much! Is this your first foster dog? Definitely make the point of paying a lot more attention to your dogs, and give them everything first. A lot of people will feel sorry for their foster dog, especially if they were neglected in anyway before coming to you, but that is the biggest mistake you can make I think. I’ll e-mail you our adoption contract in case you didn’t get one yet. Also, the older couple is in for a big surprise . My labs shed 50 times as much as my border collie does. Cathy
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