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Post by amyjo on Mar 24, 2004 12:54:09 GMT -5
I switched from the pro-heart shots back to Heartguard this year - Beacuse of the problems which have been reported.
I never did the Heartguard year round and I still won't... Only during Skeeter season. I just can't let go of the heartguard. I was wondering about doing it less often or lowering the dosages. (My dogs are 68.5 and 50+ lbs...the pills go up to 100 lbs)
Cathy, how did you come up with the 45 day interval? Do any others modify the way in which the heartguard is administered? If so how?
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Post by Willow on Mar 24, 2004 13:04:32 GMT -5
I have heard on the rawfeeding list that some give it every three months with no problem.
I am not going to make a decision until I have the HW test done. This is a difficult one for me, too, Amyjo, but if I decide to give HW preventative, I will give the Interceptor as always, because I have *herding* breeds which can be sensitive to the *stuff* (forget the name) in Heartguard, and I will only give it every 2-3 months during the summer. I never give it in the winter.
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Post by amyjo on Mar 24, 2004 13:19:35 GMT -5
Okay - I was just reading that the active ingredient in HG paralyzes the larva and that is how they die. The Larva take 7-8 months to reach maturity and move into the heart/ lungs... so you would think you would at least have a couple of months to work with.
Loey - I didn't know that about herders and HG...I too have a herder! Will have to look into that!
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Post by Willow on Mar 24, 2004 15:32:37 GMT -5
Yes, herding breeds have been known to die from *that ingredient* in HG, and I have heard on the rawfeeding list that even those who don't have herder's still use Interceptor because it doesn't contain that ingredient and isn't as dangerous to dogs in general, but is still just as effective.
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Post by packerdogs on Mar 24, 2004 15:39:17 GMT -5
I switched from the pro-heart shots back to Heartguard this year - Beacuse of the problems which have been reported. I never did the Heartguard year round and I still won't... Only during Skeeter season. I just can't let go of the heartguard. I was wondering about doing it less often or lowering the dosages. (My dogs are 68.5 and 50+ lbs...the pills go up to 100 lbs) Cathy, how did you come up with the 45 day interval? Do any others modify the way in which the heartguard is administered? If so how? It took me a few minutes, but read this I took from a website: The monthly heartworm preventatives work to kill heartworm larvae that are 45 days or less in age and probably closer to 50 days. Since an every 45 day dose would be hard to remember and provide no leeway for error, the pills are approved for monthly use. We tell clients to give another pill if they are unable to remember if they dosed their pet and we can not help them determine if that happened based on our records (usually we can help in a single dog family but it is harder when several dogs are on the same pills in a household). We just check the dates the medication is sold and count pills from there. Administering another pill is safe if one was given at the beginning of a month because the medication is not time release. It doesn't last in the body a month it just kills all the heartworm larvae that have accumulated in the last 30 days. It is pretty much completely cleared from the body in 72 hours. Since it takes 6 months for heartworms to develop to the age they can be tested for an immediate heartworm test is not necessary prior to restarting the medication. It is a very good idea to check for heartworms 6 months or so after a lapse in preventative medications. So, basically you can give it every 45 days, with no more risk then giving it every 30 days! Think of it like this, you give it every 30 days, you’re giving 12 doses to your doggy. Give it every 45 days, you’re giving only 8 doses to your doggy. Also here’s a good example and it will depends on when mosquitos start in your state (Wisconsin mosquito season is June-September). So, let’s say I’m going to be on the safe side and think it’s possible there are mosquitos in May in my state. Well, I bring my dog in on April 1st for his heartworm test and it’s negative. So, on May 15 I give him a Heartguard pill #1 (remember, this covers any larvae he may have been infected with from April 1st through May 15. Then Heartguard pill #2 on July 1st, Heartguard pill #3 on August 15, and their final Hearguard pill #4 on October 1st. So, for me, I give a whooping 4 pills a year! And mine are covered through mosquito season and get a heartworm test every April, well before mosquito season starts again. Hope that helps! Cathy
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Post by sibemom on Mar 25, 2004 19:37:29 GMT -5
That sounds like a plan I can live with Cathy I never agreed with the 12 months out of the year doses. I know that heartgaurd covers more than heartworms but I just do a fecal sample every 6 months and if needed get the wormer. If I do give heartworm meds it would be the interceptor only because Blade had a really hard time with the Heartgaurd Plus. Who knows maybe he has some herding dog blood in him
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Post by amyjo on Mar 26, 2004 12:17:50 GMT -5
I too can live with this - I can cut my old down by at least one or two doses - I never did the whole year anyway... This makes me feel alot better.
Also - I found out what the deal is with herders and heartgard. It is the indrediant ivermectin. Border collies seem to have trouble with this drug passing through the blood brain barrier. These are mostly dogs that have been dosed by their human using the product "off lable" meaning they were using the straight stuff bottled for cattle and extapolating the dose from the cattle dose - which per lb is apparently no where near the same.... BC breeders and advocates say there is most likely no problem with the stuff packaged for dogs - but still reccommend the interceptor becaue why take a chance? Other dogs thought to be affected by this sensitivity are collies, aussies and english sheep dogs....interesting.
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Post by Aussienot on Mar 26, 2004 23:52:23 GMT -5
Thanks for posting the ingredient. Most products have different names here and I was wondering. I just looked on the Sentinel Spectrum I use for my dogs, and invermectin is not an ingredient - in fact, the insert specifically says safe for use with Border Collies, Kelpies, Cattle Dogs and Shepherds. There's even a BC in the picture on the box. I never knew the herding group were different.
I'm moving Finn and Sailor to the 45 day dose, too. I'd like to be brave and trust their immune systems; but mozzies are pretty much a year round risk. Having once had a dog get heartworm, I never want to have to put a dog through the treatment again.
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Post by Willow on Mar 27, 2004 9:05:03 GMT -5
Aussienot, was your dog on HW preventative when it got the HW, or weren't you giving it at the time? Yes, the conventional treatment the Vets use is awful, but there are other ways to treat for HW that are not as dangerous and you don't have to keep the dog quiet while treating either. I am leaning towards going with Cathy's 45 day treatment too, and have at least a couple of more weeks, to a month to think about it yet, plus I am also going to discuss it with my homeopath who lives in SC and hasn't done HW preventative in something like 7 yrs. Knowing me, when I see those little bugger's buzzing around my dogs heads I will run, not walk, for the Interceptor! ;D Of course, then we also have West Nile to worry about, and that is one vacc I absolutely will not give because dogs/'horses have contracted it after getting the vacc.
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Post by Aussienot on Mar 27, 2004 17:41:54 GMT -5
It was my Irish Setter, Jenny, who had heartworm in 1995. Both dogs had a heartworm test prior to immigration. It should have been just a formality, since they were on HW meds at the time, and both had been tested prior to starting HW meds. But with Jenny, nothing about her health ever went smothly. While Jody the black Lab was always robust, Jenny had no will to live and was allergic to everything. Jenny had the worst immune system of any animal I've ever owned. If she took a medicine, she had an allergic reaction. Treatment of the first reaction would trigger a second symptom. Treatment of the second reaction would . . . . . . If she could catch something, she would. And she'd deal with it badly. I can't remember too much detail, but I think cyanide was used in the treatment. All I do remember is that it was terrible for her. Her heart stopped once during the treatment, and she lost all of her coat. She was the dog who died of bloat three years later. She was kind of a big red mess, but I loved her. She was only 7. If I'd know then about feeding raw, about holistic meds, and about vaccinosis, it probably would have been a different story.
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Post by amyjo on Mar 27, 2004 18:43:59 GMT -5
Aussienot - I feel the same way about my irish/golden mix Mickey.... He came from a dispreputable breeder who bred both - he must got the worst of both of her lines because he was just a mess... skin problems, hypothyroid, bad hips, caught everything like giardia, kennel cough...and ended up dying of cancer at 8. I too wish I would have known what I know now...I was just thinking about that today in fact - then I read your post and started crying again I did the best I knew - but now I know so much better.
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Post by Laura on Mar 27, 2004 23:54:18 GMT -5
You two did the best by your dogs, and probably a whole lot more than most would do, you certainly can't undo lousy breeding by stupid people. But it's terribly frustrating when your hands are tied, and you feel like there's nothing you can do to make them better . I do that 45 day Interceptor plan too, I just have to make sure I write it on the calendar, otherwise, I forget . Loey, what's another alternative to the regular HW treatment that you mentioned? The 6 weeks of rest is what makes it so hard , try and keep a young Sibe quiet for that long without pulling out your hair!
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Post by Willow on Mar 28, 2004 16:55:57 GMT -5
Aussienot and Amyjo, I'm so sorry about your dogs! That's sad, but as Laura said, you did the best you knew how to at the time, and did more than a lot of people would do under the circumstances.
Laura: One treatment is to give a reg. dose of preventative each mo. until the test is negative. It is a much gentler treatment, and most dogs have no adverse reaction to it, plus unlike the cyanide, it doesn't kill too many at one time, so you don't run the risk of the dose not being right, too many hw dying and clogging the arteries, and you don't have to keep the dog quiet.
Someone posted on the TAV list that she treated one of her dogs this way and it worked really well. I don't know how often you test until they are negative. I tried to find the post in the archives, but couldn't, but I will ask on the list and see if anyone remembers.
The other method is with homeopathic treatment and it's covered on the danebytes site in the hw thread I started. I have heard this works fine too.
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Post by Laura on Mar 28, 2004 18:14:14 GMT -5
Thanks Loey, I'm going to speak to the vet about that, she's getting an EKG tommorrow morning to see how advanced it is . If it's not too far gone, I'd rather giver her the Heartguard than the use the Immeticide. Immeticide is a lot better than the old treatment, but still tough on the organs . I let you know how it goes.
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Post by Willow on Mar 28, 2004 19:31:03 GMT -5
What is her health like otherwise? Does she act lethargic and *sick*? If not, it's probably not advanced to a dangerous level yet.
Someone on the TAV site or in one of the articles I read on hw said that dogs can often have hw and not show any symptoms, or have any ill effects from hw, because in dogs with healthy immune systems, the adult hw are constantly dying off, and unless you test, you would never know the dog had hw!
Well, it's scarey for sure and a lot of dogs are never the same after the treatment. Probably because like you said...it damages their internal organs and they are left with lingering affects from it.
Which ever way you decide to treat, I sure hope all goes well and she comes out of this with flying colors! Yes! Please, please let us know how it is going.
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