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Post by Diggler on Dec 31, 2004 17:53:06 GMT -5
I have a 4 year old chocolate lab. I got this breed because they are supposedly good with children.
We have an 11 year old and a one year old son. The dog doesn't like the one year old to touch him. Sometimes he tolerates the baby petting him, but occasionally he growls or barks and snaps. This behavior is completely unprovoked - no hair or ear pulling, and my son is very gentle with him.
The problem is that the dog recognizes my dominance but no one else's in the family. I can hold a sandwich inches from his nose and he will not attempt to take it, but he will jump up and take food from my 11 year old, and to a lesser extent, my wife. When I tell him to sit, he does so instantaneously but ignores commands from the other family members.
I think these two issues are related but don't know how to fix it.
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Post by sibemom on Dec 31, 2004 18:44:34 GMT -5
Well first off welcome to the board ;D There are breeds specifcly described at being good with children, but there is NO dog that is 100% child proof. That being said it sounds like you do have some issues to attend to. Your 11 year old should start being involved in the training of your dog, you must show your dog that EVERY two legged member of your family is the boss not just you. Start, under supervision of course, haveing your older child do some OB training with your dog, I would recomend using a pinch collar because Lab's are strong and unless your 11 year old is VERY BIG, it would help in keeping controll and getting to dog to understand when a command is given by them they mean it, no fooling around. As far as your toddler, well that is a little bit more delicate. You have to becareful how you correct the dog where your toddler is concerned because you do not want the dog to resent him. By that I mean he must associate the bad behavior with the correction and not the child. I use a pinch collar for this also and when my dogs would get to bossy or cranky they got a collar correction and in their crate they went. I would then try later and if it continued I would do the same thing. Dogs do not respect children and most of the time veiw them as littermates. Because your dog is already and adult you need to work very hard at getting this fixed. I must ask unless I missed it who came first the dog or the 1 year old? I did have a problem once with one of my labs not liking my youngest son, she loved the other two but the youngest she had no tolerence for and he never did anything to her. I solved the problem with the pinch collar and crate and after my son got older they became the best of freinds. I would supervise all interactions between the two and I would keep your dog on leash pinch collar in place so that you can handle it accordingly. There is no easy answer to fixing this except being on top of it, remember your childs saftey comes first before the dog and if it does not get better then you need to keep them seperate or think about re-homing the dog. I know that sounds harsh but that is a reality that sometimes is the only safe measure for dog and child. I am sure others will have some advice for you but these are the things that have worked for me.
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Post by Aussienot on Dec 31, 2004 19:52:18 GMT -5
That is a very good observation, and yes it's at the core of the problem. Dogs will naturally rise to highest pack level they can without meeting resistance. And they will seize and protect privileges according to rank. It doesn't mean that they are mean, aggressive or even dominant; it's just the social order of dogs. It sounds like, from your dog's point of view, in your house the order is you, the dog, your wife, your older son- and the toddler doesn't even rate. I'd advise you to change it to you or your wife at one and two ( ;D you two can work that one out ), the 11 year old, then the dog - and the toddler stays under your protection until much older because he's going to be completely incapable of dog managment for a long time. Please check out the topic 'Nothing in Life is Free'. dogden.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=Questions&action=display&thread=1079736429Start doggy boot camp today. The Dog works for every thing you provide him - dinner, walks, attention. No toys or bones lying around - you put them out for him, you pick them up when you say he's done. All humans go out doorways, gateways, stairways, hallways first. Never step over your dog - make the dog move out of your way. Do long downs - work up to 30 minutes. All three of you, especially your older son, need to make the dog realise you are in control of the resources. All of you should do Obedience training with him - make it fun and motivational and he'll love it. Labs do tend to be good with children, but the 'how' to be good with children needs to be learned by the dog, as Sibemom described.
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Post by Kona on Jan 1, 2005 1:02:21 GMT -5
Good points from Sibe and Aussie. Here's something else for you to think about. One of the hardest things for most people to understand is the way a dog thinks. When you say that the dog snaps at the baby and the behavior is "completely unprovoked," you need to understand that what you consider provocation (hair or ear pulling) is not what your dog considers provocation. To him, your baby is challenging him in ways that you might not see. Just putting his hands on the dog may be a challenge if the baby does it in a certain way.
The dog honestly thinks that it's his job to help raise the puppy (your baby), and one of the ways that older dogs raise puppies is by snapping at them when they act in an inappropriate manner. To us it is "unprovoked aggression." To a dog he's just teaching good manners. The problem is a real puppy has thick, loose skin, and fast reflexes. Human babies have neither. I’ve met too many people who, as children, were bitten by dogs and who still have the scars to show for it, myself included.
For that reason, as Aussie said, the baby and the dog should not be interacting at this point. My advice to my students is that a dog should not interact with any child under the age of six without extremely close supervision, and that means you (or another adult that the dog completely respects and submits to) should have the dog on a short leash at the time.
[edited for grammar]
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Post by sibemom on Jan 1, 2005 19:46:59 GMT -5
You are so right about that Kona ;D I stopped allowing my son to be on the eye level as the dogs. Nothing had ever happened like a snap or a bite, it was just observations of body language that made me start thinking. I should have saw this but it was not untill someone else pointed it out that I really gave it great thought. Because he was at their level they veiwed him as an equal instead of a higher atthority. So now when he plays I always make sure he is standing erect not lower than the dog, and making sure that the dog is minding it's manners. That has helped a great deal and it was just a simple change in the way I allowed interaction. I do not ever let my 4 year old play with my pup unless she is on leash. This way I have controll of the situation and the more you can prevent mishaps the better. She has been very good so far. There are very few dogs out there that behave like the Lassie image presented on TV, someone really smart told me that once (Loey ;D) and I think people are looking for that, and when they read a breed description that says a dog is good with children they think automaticly it happens. It dose'nt you have to make it happen and with some dogs it never happens. They may like older kids but some dogs for what ever reason are not reseptive to very small children and that is where you must use the utmost caution in allowing them to interact. My feeling is proof your OB training, socialize the dog around kids but really a toddler does not need to play with a dog for the dog to accept and like the child, to many things can happen and it is not either ones fault. They can pet the dog under your supervision talk nice to the dog but to actually PLAY it's not resonable. In just the pure excitement of play a small child can be knocked down or nipped, and then that is unfortuante for both because it is not meaness or aggresion it is just simple play
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