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Post by adegiulio on Oct 24, 2004 20:52:04 GMT -5
We have two fairly new Weims that we got from a Weim. rescue group. The older one, Sammy, we got in March. He is around 2 years old and was found as a stray. He is very sweet (usually) and smart. The younger one, Frankie, is 6 months. He was to be euthanized at a pet store after he was returned by his first owner. He is a devil but very smart. Not as sweet as Sammy, but I think he is brighter. We got him in July. After the first few days of getting to know each other, the two dogs got together very well. Both are males. Sammy was neutered in May, Frankie was just altered 2 weeks ago. They really seem to like each other, often sleeping on top of one another. Both dogs have gone through obedience training.
The problem arises when Frankie is chewing on a rawhide or playing with a toy. Sammy will occasionally decide that he wants that toy and then attack Frankie. Usually he will grab Frankie's neck (which still has a lot of loose puppy skin---he's so cute). He has drawn blood a few times. Poor frankie has scars on his neck and now one on his ear from these attacks. The attacks usually last a few seconds, after which Sammy runs off, clearly nervous (and I swear remorseful).
I don't know if this is just a way for Sammy to assert his dominance or what. We train them often in an attempt to show OUR dominance, but the problem persists.
Any suggestions? We would hate to get rid of Frankie. They really seem to like each other and whimper and whine when the other dog is not around. Plus we love Frankie and would prefer to see them grow old with us...
Thanks! Anthony
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Post by Nicole on Oct 25, 2004 7:46:15 GMT -5
Hi Anthony. Welcome to the board. Your problem is quite common and actually not at all unexpected in a two male dog household. Sammy, as the higher ranking, is doing what higher ranking dogs do...he is taking what he wants when he wants it. The pup is resisting this. When that happens, you have fighting. If all were harmonious in the rank order, the pup would simply relinquish the bone. It may be that the pup has never learned how to do this or he isn’t convinced that Sammy is higher than he is. There are many dogs who would get along great if not for the introduction of toys or bones. On the other hand, same sexed dogs sometimes never get along. They can’t resolve the rank issue. At the moment, at least from your post, the aggression seems limited to objects (bones, toys) That is not to say that it may not erupt into a larger battle especially since Frankie is a pup and as he gets older he may want to be number one. You do not have to get rid of the pup. For now, do not allow the dogs bones or toys while they are together. If they respect you as pack leader you may be able to control them with objects while you supervise. In that case, you would not allow them near each other while the other has a bone etc. You should not allow Sammy to aggress upon or bite the pup. Frankly, it is much simpler to remove these objects from their environment when they are together. They won’t die without them. My dog Reign would kill another dog who tried to take his bone or toy. He is not allowed ANY toys or bones if another dog is around EVER!! He would not aggress upon another dog under any other circumstance. Since there is a some disharmony and there is no way to know for certain if it is limited to possessions, I would watch them very closely and carefully while they are together to make sure this doesn’t erupt into an all out rank battle. It may be that Sammy may also decide that he wants the bed or the spot that the pup is lying on or something else. It also may help some now that the pup is neutered. I would also separate the dogs and only allow structured supervised interaction. This way they will each bond with you and not just with each other. This is important so that they will continue to obey you and respect you. Dogs that just bond with each other form their own pack and often exclude you. You should play with them separately, train separately but also allow them to play with each other supervised. You want them to think that you are the center of their world. At some point you may be able to trust them together but I would not do so right now. Don’t be fooled by the sleeping together etc. This isn’t about whether they like each other. This is about dominance and it only takes a second for a fight to be triggered when there is this type of disharmony. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Post by Rowan on Oct 25, 2004 19:58:04 GMT -5
you said that both are new to you and your house hold and not sure how long a time frame is new. Will always feel developeing good natured individuals will be your best bet in altering disasterious natural instinct. I agree from your post that all toys should be taken out of the environment if they are to be let loose together unsupervised. With a multiple home family for any new comer I provide safety for both so they can't make the wrong choices. If it means crating, or baby gateing two sections of the house for right now I would do so. May seem time consuming to make two schedules for now but it may be shorter then you think if they respond well. Gives you time to establish your household rules and routines, teaching the individual with the goal of having both dogs on the same sheet of music so they can interact. They have to learn to wait for the other dog, I am one for dispensing the BS with older dog should be treated alpha, I purposely switch things up inorder not to establish a dangerious position that gives power to one dog over the other dogs with my blessing so I do not promote any of my dogs alpha.. Once I have good individuals then I can work with them together. Wonderful that you took them both in to your home.
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Post by Aussienot on Oct 26, 2004 3:20:33 GMT -5
Having two dogs that don't always get along is not the worst thing that can happen, but it means you will have to manage the situation. Supervised play, and separated when you can't watch them. You can't just expect them to get long or to work it out themselves.
Whenever the two dogs are together, minimise the "flash points". Bones, food, toys, owner attention, doorways. Don't give them any reason to pull rank on each other or anything to fight over.
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Post by adegiulio on Nov 5, 2004 7:20:50 GMT -5
I've been away for a while so I didn't get a chance to read everyone's response until now. Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I tend to agree that managing the access to bones, toys, etc. is the best way to go. Remove the fuse from the firecracker...This seems to be the only time they don't get along. I can live with limiting their toys and bones to supervised or separate play. Hopefully over time they will learn. In the meantime, they are plenty fun all by themselves...
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