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Post by boxerlover on Sept 10, 2004 9:17:27 GMT -5
I am overcome with guilt and shame, remorse, you name it. Have a lump the size of a basketball in my throat!
Last night we were outdoors....my daughter was having a tantrum and left the doors wide open to the house. I heard the comotion....by the time I got inside it was too late. My cat was killed by Buddy.
Does this mean this dog is vicious? Everyone keeps telling me he will hurt my children. Is this true? I am overcome with sadness, at the same time I do not completely understand why I am not mad at the dog. Of course I am sick at myself for allowing this to happen. I am angry at myself! Are dogs that kill cats deemed unadoptable?
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Post by FlatCoatedLover on Sept 10, 2004 9:49:40 GMT -5
I am not sure about being un-adoptable but I don't think that because a dog as attacked/killed a cat that it makes them vicious. I would make sure he does not go to a home with cats.
My dog regularly chases and catches chickens. She has a soft mouth and brings them directly to me. If I allowed her to I am sure she would kill and eat it (have never actually done this). She also is not fond of cats but she has been trained that she is not to mess with them. She gets one bark but that is it. But she is a complete doll when it comes to children, she is so gentel and calm and not jumpy or hyper.
It is all goes back to training. If this dog had never been introduced and desensitized to the cats then he was just acting on instinct. Now that you know how he will react with cats it is up to you to do something about it.
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Post by boxerlover on Sept 10, 2004 10:18:09 GMT -5
Yes, I had started trying to desensitize him to the cat. Obviously I failed. He would not make motion towards the cat if I was in the house. He will come directly to me in the house. He got in unsupervised and he took it from there. I was not there to correct him.
I am so confused. Everyone tells me to return him to the shelter ASAP. It is not that easy...forgive me Bosco kitty please! I like this dog.
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Post by Willow on Sept 10, 2004 10:20:46 GMT -5
FCL is correct. Many dogs will kill other animals and be perfectly wonderful with children/people.
"Uncle Lou" on Leerburg has articles on "Crittering", which is how to train a dog not to chase/kill other animals by using an e-collar. Since you are only fostering this dog, you may not want to go to the expense of buying an e-collar or spend the time to train this dog, but of course, as FCL said, the dog definately cannot go to a home who has cats and the new owner's must be aware of the fact that this dog will kill them (and probably any other small animal it gets a chance at.)
I'm sorry for your kitty. Since I am a cat lover also, I don't think any dog should be a "cat killer", but as FCL also said, for most dogs killing other animals is "natural" and they have to be trained NOT to kill.
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Post by Aussienot on Sept 10, 2004 18:30:43 GMT -5
Boxerlover, I am very sorry about the loss of your cat. I understand your feelings of remorse. Please try not to beat yourself up over it.
Finn also killed my cat. In the aftermath I was terribly conflicted over whether to 'blame' him and surrender him for euthanasia. With his mouthing problems, his wild behavior and his potential Bully breeding, there was no chance he'd be put up for adoption.
I was working on the crittering and having great sucess in training situations; then one sad day the cat jumped over the fence and landed right at Finn's feet.
To Finn, the cat was nothing more than a playtoy. I don't think he has an understanding of what he did, and it was no different than shredding the squeaky mouse toys he loves. It was not "viciousness"; he just responded to the movement and sound. Many, many dogs will kill chickens, mice, rabbits, birds, squirrels - the chase brings out the latent prey drive in even the mildest dog if the opportunity presents itself.
Prey drive is NOT an indicator of aggression to humans or other dogs. Dog aggression to humans or other dogs comes from Defense Drive (fear-based) and or Fight drive (rank based).
It does mean Buddy will need training not to respond to small furry things without your approval. And he must go to a home without cats. Lots of dogs on Petfinder are marked with Xed out cats, so while it does limit adoption choices it's not a disqualifier to adoption.
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Post by boxerlover on Sept 10, 2004 20:53:59 GMT -5
Thank you all so much for your support! Seriously helps me out alot. I have had 2 home visits in the last 2 days and another tomorrow of potential adopters. The gentleman that came today....I am pretty sure wants to adopt him. He took the application and his 6 year old daughter adored the dog. Buddy adores children. It breaks my heart to no end....I have had him here for about 7 weeks and the very day after he kills my cat, he may possibly find his forever home. I have had people ask me if I would now keep him. I cannot because he will be an everyday reminder of the horrible death my cat suffered. I will not return him to the shelter....even though it is very confusing. I made a commitment to him. Nothing will be solved by returning him and breaking his heart as well.
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Post by boxerlover on Sept 10, 2004 20:57:47 GMT -5
Oh, I forgot to mention....I am very upfront in sharing with potentioal adopters....that this dog did, and will kill cats and other critters.
Aussienot.....You have no idea the comfort it brings me to know that this happened to you also. I do not feel as alone right now. Thank you for telling me!
I feel like my heart was left behind yesterday.
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Post by ripley on Sept 10, 2004 22:55:47 GMT -5
I'm so sorry boxerlover.. You aren't alone, though. I had a dog (Also named Buddy) who killed one of my cats once. I considered giving him away, I was so upset over it all, but I decided just to work with Buddy. I never trained him out of his prey drive, but I was able to teach him (With a lot of serious corrections when he would even LOOK at those cats) that he could chase anything BUT cats. As a precaution I would not adopt him out to anyone who has cats or small dogs, since he can't be trusted with them, but prey drive does not equal viciousness, he just needs a home without cats or small dogs. Again I'm so sorry to hear about Bosco...
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Post by boxerlover on Sept 11, 2004 9:18:57 GMT -5
Oh Thank You Ripley's Girl! I feel even less alone! I was able to get some sleep last night. Day by day I hope I feel better. Although the vision of my cat being used a ragdoll. Will never fade. I had to rush the cat to emergency vet. He was still alive, so he had to be euthanized. He meowed at me several times on the drive. It was heart wrenching. Completely and totally Heartwrenching. Sometimes I wonder if his death would have been shorter if the dog finished it before I got there? The vet was heartbroken as well.
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Post by Willow on Sept 11, 2004 10:26:12 GMT -5
Oh, Boxerlover, how awful for you and I know what you mean about it being better if your cat had already been dead when you got there. One of my GSD's first killed one of my kittens, (I first saw her tossing the dead body around on the front lawn and thought she had an old rag!) I almost went into shock when I saw it was my kitten. Then when our oldest boy and the landlords boy left the barn door open, she killed about 100 pregnant rabbits, owned by our landlord. That could have been expensive for us and at that time we did not have extra money lying around to pay for things our dog killed. Thankfully, our landlord was a very understanding man and didn't make us pay for the rabbits. I was heartsick over these two incidents and still blame myself, because she showed signs, which I chose to ignore, that she was capable of doing this. The day she tried to kill our half grown pigs however, is the day I knew she had to go. Back in those early days, dogs who killed other animals on a farm were shot, but my husband just told me to "get rid of her", so I gave her to a wonderful older couple who lived in town and had a fenced yard and no cats. She had a very happy life with them. They spoiled her and let her up on the furniture etc., which I never did. ;D I have to admit that after she did these things, my feelings for her changed and I really didn't like her much after that, because even though I know " dogs will be dogs" etc., after the first incident I worked with her hoping she wouldn't do it again, but in those days we didn't have e-collars, and she did do it again. I would also think that even doing the "crittering" like Uncle Lou teaches, may stop a dog from chasing/killing when you are present, but I'm not so sure it would in a situation where the dog is outside by itself and a small animal comes boppin' by.
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Post by sibemom on Sept 11, 2004 10:46:03 GMT -5
I am very sorry Boxerlover for the loss of your cat I know dogs will be dogs, but I agree with Loey it can be controlled while your there but what happens when your not I had dogs that killed chickens and it ticked me off, so I just kept them away from the chickens. I trained them to leave them alone when I was there but if I wasn't they were contained. Man Loey 100 rabbits I already know that we have to train for respect of small animals with both the dogs. Blade is ok as long as one of us is present but Willow needs work. Again so sorry for your cat
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Post by boxerlover on Sept 11, 2004 12:09:23 GMT -5
100 rabbits Does anyone know if dogs who do this....will they also kill small breed dogs? Yorkies and so forth? What if he strays from his new home.... (when he gets one) Wanders to the neighbors and kills their small pet? Can you be sued for this? These questions were just asked to me, I really do not know?
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Post by ripley on Sept 11, 2004 14:54:03 GMT -5
Boxerlover... Yes, and maybe. IMO, a dog that has killed a cat or other small animal can not be trusted around small dogs, period. That's why, for example, when I look on petfinder.com, I always avoid the ones that say NO CATS because they likely have a high prey drive and would kill a small dog as well. And if the dog gets out of the new owner's yard, and goes off and kills someone's little dog, cat, rabbit, chicken etc. YOU might not be the one sued (The rescue might get the dog back though) but the new owners could be. It's their responsibility to make EXTRA carefully sure that that dog never gets out of the yard unattended. I don't see why Buddy couldn't be adopted out, I know of many people just around here who have no cats, no small dogs, and can handle a drivey dog. There's definitely someone out there for Buddy. It was so heartbreaking for me when Bud killed my cat.. It was like one of my kids killing his sister, as corny as that sounds. I was 8 and I just never expected that he would do that, so it was really shocking.. Best wishes for you, Buddy and your family.
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Post by boxerlover on Sept 11, 2004 16:33:27 GMT -5
I know I would not be held responsible. He is not my dog, he belongs to the Animal Shelter. I am fostering him through the humane society.
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