|
Post by amyjo on Jul 9, 2004 7:18:14 GMT -5
Okay - so I am working with this rottie...great girl and learning very fast. Basic obedience is on track...Leash walking - pretty good and yesterday we learned "roll" for fun.
I believe the come command is ruined for her, too many times called and not enforced or called and then abused (long story)...anyway - we'll be working on "here!" in the immediate future.
Big problem remaining. The dog is protective of the children in the household. Last night I saw the mother pretend to hit her four year old daughter with a pillow - rottie girl - lunged so fast and with so much power, put her teeth on mom's arm (didn't actually bite) kind of tackled mom out of the way and stood between mom and daughter growling.
I tell you I almost pooped on myself.
I know rotties are very protective of children and I also believe that perhaps the child was not always treated properly by the male of the household - so I am sure this has contributed to the situation.
What is the proper way to handle this? Can this be trained away - if so how? Is this more of a relationship issue between Mom and Rottie (lack of leadership)?... How can we make rottie understand mom gets to do whatever she wants - yet maintain her desire to protect the child in other circumstances? Or is that a big mistake becasue rottie obviously doesn't know the difference between danger and play?
I am beginning to see this more as a management issue then a training issue - what do you guys think?
|
|
|
Post by Laura on Jul 9, 2004 14:15:32 GMT -5
I think you're right, it's a leadership issue between Mom and the rottie. Rottie sees the child as a possession, not good. A dog like this doesn't have stable enough nerves to differentiate between play and protection. Mom has to start commanding more respect from the dog, and get that dog to understand that the child is HERS, period. I will assume that Auntie Amyjo has started NILIF bootcamp ;D? And I will suggest using a muzzle as well when you work with this dog until it understands that the position of Alpha has been filled . I think the kids need to stay out of the picture until better control is established with the dog, because I can almost guarantee that you'll see one last extinction burst of protection before it's all said and done. Can you set the dog up using something else it "protects"? Does she have any food or toy guarding? I'd start with that first. And in this case I would use an e-collar as well, that way you can correct the dog safely for outbursts like this. Plus it's a totally different sensation than a prong or choke, and definately less invasive. I'll bet her working level is the minimum nick, and a correction is about a three. Give it at least several weeks of the hardcore NILIF, and then reintroduce the kids back into training times. And be sure this dogs gets higher praise and treats than corrections, it sounds like she hasn't has enough to be balanced in her lifetime .
|
|
|
Post by sibemom on Jul 9, 2004 15:44:22 GMT -5
I agree 100% with that Laura My lab was very protective over my kids and during the divorce, and because the "so- called- male" of our household was not very nice, would stand between him and the kids even if he made no movement towards them. That I did not correct but she knew better when it came to me and my discipining them.
|
|
|
Post by amyjo on Jul 11, 2004 19:31:09 GMT -5
Thanks guys...right now the rottie and I are having private training sessions. I am working on and proofing all the basics and then I will work with the mom, to transfer those skills. She doesn't have much time and has tried unsucessfully to train this dog - so there is a high level of frustration. I think if she sees the dog can and will obey someone else she will believe it is possible. I have spoken at length about NILIF but I am getting a great deal of push back because this woman has a lot fo guilt about the previous treatment the dog received. Hey.... I'm just a dog walker/trainer...not a therapist. But I am doing the best I can....I am learning pretty fast it is SO not about training the dogs. Most of the problems are "people" problems.
|
|
|
Post by Aussienot on Jul 12, 2004 1:20:17 GMT -5
I debated this myself when I adopted out of control Finn. He had been cruely beaten many times in puppyhood, and I suffered transferred guilt about 'trying to make it up to him'. I didn't want to deny him any kindness or pleasure.
On the other hand, he was destroying my life with his wild dog ways.
All I can say is that he THRIVED in a clear, understandable NILIF system. For the first time in his life, he understood what was expected of him. He became a lovely, well behaved dog.
NILIF doesn't hurt the dog, it helps the dog. She has to stop clinging to the way the dog was treated previously. SHE NEEDS TO GET OVER IT for the dog's sake. She can't undo the past with her actions now. All she can do is try to create a better future. NILIF will get them both there.
|
|
|
Post by amyjo on Jul 12, 2004 7:53:21 GMT -5
Thanks Aussie...it is so frustrating...I am just trying so hard to convince her before sombody gets hurt. She is also locked in that downward spiral with the dog misbehavior, banishment, more misbehavior, more banishment...and I have explained that this much harder on the dog than a little bit of "working for her supper"....
I am having a little success because she is already seeing the dog will sit nice for me to get her leash on, won't pull me and will do sits and downs on the first command and she wants to know why not for HER??? I have explained (again) that it is all about the proper relationship. Hopefully it is sinking in ;D
|
|
|
Post by Brooke on Jul 12, 2004 22:18:10 GMT -5
I can understand how hard it can be in both of your shoes. First you have this person who doesn't know much about dog training or behavior and trying to get her to understand what she thinks is best is in all actuality the worst for the end outcome she is looking for. It's so hard to displace yourself from that when you have something in front of you that has suffered and you just want the rest to be happiness. You are doing a great job Amyjo ;D Keep it up! I get people all the time asking me to take their dog for a week or two and train them I am amazed at how many people think it's that simple. In all honesty I feel training all together is probably 90% training the humans and 10% the dogs...it's hard not to take the baggage that comes with it. The marital differences in training styles and house management. Either it will happen or it won't. Don't beat yourself up over it. Just keep letting her know that you can't help her if she's not willing to follow the program. It's not going to do you any good putting in the efforts if she's not going to abide by it. If anything maybe print this out her
|
|