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Post by bobbenson on Mar 10, 2007 13:00:21 GMT -5
I have to travel the end of this month for about 5 days. Its spring break and all the pet motels are booked up. I'm going to leave my boxer puppy with some friends. He will be 7 months by then and I will have had him for two months. They also have a boxer who is about 5 years old.
He's getting better. Heels ok, still tends to pull slightly or walk ahead of me. Sits extremely well. If I'm heeling him and I say sit but keep walking, the sit is immediate.
While he is there, he will probably get free roam of the house, although I'm going to try to get them to crate him when he isn't being watched. They also have a boxer. Their dog gets no disipline, gets table scraps, full roam of the house.
When I get him back, I expect to have taken a step back in the training process. My thought is to immediately put him on a training collar and go for a walk. Particularly working on sit, since that is his strong suit.
Any thoughts or suggestions? Maybe I'm worrying about nothing?
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Post by Nicole on Mar 11, 2007 11:28:07 GMT -5
He will probably pick up some bad house manners from the older dog and being in an unstructured environment. You will just have to work hard on undoing that. Also, be mindful that pups learn quickly from older dogs. It stinks really. When Reign was a pup he shared very very well with other dogs that were his friends. We played ONCE with a grown dog who was aggressive when anyone approached his toy. Guess what happened. My dog copied him and I could never trust him again with a toy near another dog. I undid it to some extent but in my heart he remained untrustworthy.
Anyway, I am not trying to worry you unnecessarily but these things happen. If the dog begs at the table and your friend gives him food, he will beg again. You will just have to put him in boot camp when you get back. Try explaining to your friend that you do not want him to allow certain behavior, getting on furniture, eating scraps from the table etc. And understand that he will be stressed from your absence so give him a little time to chill before you start with the OB commands. In other words don't walk out your friends door and expect him to perform to perfection.
I would be more worried about him being left unsupervised with the older dog. Older dogs aren't always tolerant of puppy behavior. I would insist that the dog be crated when unsupervised. Do the two dogs know each other?
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Post by bobbenson on Mar 11, 2007 22:33:41 GMT -5
I spent 7 hours there today. The dogs got along well and my friends were better than I thought they would be about things like table scraps. They try to keep the dog out of the kitchen which is something I also do. They tend to shout commands at the dog which I don't do. All in all it went well though. He will probably have no leash time with them which is I suspect is better. Better no leash time, than bad leash time.
The bigger problem is he had three accidents in the house while the door was open to go outside. Tile floors, so clean up isn't a big issue. It definitely showed me that he is not house trained though. I'm in an apartment and time going out around him, so accidents have been minimal. The problem is, he isn't having accidents because I'm timing my schedule around him. I go out, he does his thing, I give him access to the living room where I am for 1 hour or a little more. Then I crate him until its time to go out again, maybe 3 hours. I am usually in the area of the crate so he doesn't feel abandoned. He stay's in his crate for 8 hours overnight without soiling it, so I know he can hold it.
Somehow I'm both not showing him how to ask to go out and not showing him where out is??? My other thought is that the need to pee hits him instantly. Dunno???
Sit and heel are going so well, that I don't think I'm a complete idiot at training. But I'm getting really frustrated at the house training part.
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Post by Dom on Mar 12, 2007 10:02:04 GMT -5
People tend to use "house trained" as a blanket term for dogs not going potty in ANY home. The truth is that you are training your dog to go in this and that area and training them not to go in other areas. Your dog doesn't associate four walls, windows, and carpet to a home so he will probably not understand the boundaries in another home. After all, you have taught him the rules in YOUR living room, kitchen, hallway, and bedroom. He does not know the rules in your FRIENDS living room, kitchen, etc. In essence, you are proofing potty training your dog when you bring him into others homes. It is the same way you have to proof them with "sit" in different areas and on alien surfaces. We recently opened a new room in our home. The door was 100% closed for the first year we had Sadie. We knew that Sadie would not realize that, even though the room was part of our house, that it was off limits for potty breaks. We had to supervise her 100% of the time she was in that room so she would understand. Your dog is still a pup. He will make mistakes. We didn't trust Sadie with full access to our house until she was close to two year olds even though she had urinated only once in our home. I am pretty sure Sadie is proofed to go potty on grass. Grass is what she has been taught to use. If I tell her to potty on concrete she will not go. We must be on grass. Different surfaces (tile)/smells/door exits may be confusing to your pup because he is not aware of the rules related. You will probably have to do what Nicole said and put your pup in mini boot camp when you return. Dogs do mimic other dogs quickly. He could pick up some bad behaviors. Be sure to tell your friends the rules you would like them to follow but realize they will never be you. I am sure they will not follow every rule to the letter. People will make mistakes. The first time your pup flashes that "puppy pass" at them, they will probably go squishy. They were kind enough to offer your pup a safe place while you are gone so they have to have good hearts. Or they could be like me and love to play with puppies as long as I can send them home afterward. This is a personal choice, but I wouldn't give them the commands you use for training. The potty training ones should be ok. They could do more damage without knowing exactly what the dog is expected to do, tone, repeating command, improper correction to no correction, and teaching your dog it is ok to ignore the commands. Just my opinion. On the plus side, he could benefit from being around the other dog. It really depends on the other dog and the people. As an example -- Before Sadie, we never had to potty train a dog. We always had more than one dog and at one point we had six... or was it five. I lost track because my husband counted two Poms equal one DOG. The dogs we had potty trained the new dogs. I would like to take the credit but I know that would be a lie. Sadie helped us train Elsie. Of course we did stay with the scheduled feedings and potty breaks. Elsie would watch Sadie and her behaviors. If Sadie went to the "potty spot" in our yard then Elsie would follow. If Sadie went to the bathroom then Elsie would go the exact same time. Have a safe trip!
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Post by willow on Mar 12, 2007 14:04:59 GMT -5
Especially dogs who are "crate trained" and kept in a crate quite a bit during the day need to also be "house trained". All the dogs I house trained never tried to potty in anyone else's house or in any indoor building. Of course I always kept them on leash for awhile before letting them loose in a strange place, but when I was fostering for several rescues, I found that no matter how old the dog, if it had been "crate trained" and kept in a crate during the day while the owner worked and then again over night, when I let the dog have more freedom, because I am at home all the time, it was not house trained and would try to potty in the house. What I had to do is treat the dog as if it was a young puppy and watch it like a hawk when it was out of the crate, and if it started to go potty in the house, I would say, "ah ah" and rush it outside. Fortunately with most older dogs, it only takes a few times until they know not to go in the house, because they can already hold it for several hours, but I always knew what I was in for when the rescue would boast that my new foster was "crate trained" and kept in the crate during the day when the owner was at work.
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Post by bobbenson on Mar 12, 2007 22:44:49 GMT -5
Interesting willow. I am crate training and am in a small apartment. My schedule is:
I get up at 10am. I let him out of his crate. I'm trying to get him to ask to go out at this point. He stretches, ambles around. With luck, he sits by the door and I immediately grab the leash, say out and go out. I also have a bell by the door that if he touches, I say out and take him out immediately. I have been putting peanut butter on the bell when I anticipate going out to get him to touch it. He's not a fascinated by peanut butter as other dogs and that only partially works.
Once we go out and he does both numbers, I come back in and he has free roam of the living room area where my office is. I can trust him for about one hour. Curious thing is in about an hour or a little more if I take him out again he will both poop and pee again. I know he can hold it for 8 hours over night (although he has no food or water for 2 hours before bedtime.).
Based on another post here which said you shouldn't meet their exact schedule, I put him in his crate at 11am or so (near me in the living room). I'll leave him there until about 3pm. I'm home all this time working on the computer near him. At 3pm I take him out for a potty walk. I come back home for 10 minutes and then will take him for a half hour training walk.
It's now 4pm. He has done his thing, so I let him play in the living room for an hour or so, then I crate him again. I don't trust him after an hour not to have an accident. During this time he has access to food and water and is usually hungry and thirsty.
Between 9pm and 10pm I'll take him out for a combination potty / training walk. I heel him to an area a block away. I say "release" With the word release he tends to go crazy trying to play. If he gets to crazy I tell him to sit. He always sits immediately. I'll then say release very softly. He will be calmer and do his thing. Then we go for a training walk which consists of heeling and sitting. If he starts to get ahead of me I say sit while continuing to walk. I correct if he doesn't sit immediately. Sometimes he is lethargic about sitting (1 second), sometimes he sits immediately.
It's now 11 pm ish. I put up all water and food and let him run around the living room for an hour or so. If he is very active I may give him a very small amount of water and then crate him. I work until about 2am, take him out for a potty walk. This will usually be about a 15 min walk, because he is sleepy and I can't get him to do his potty and pee instantly. After he does his thing, I come home and go to bed.
As a footnote, when possible I try to get him to ask to go out by sitting next to the door or hitting the bell. Sometimes I'm rushed and just put the leash on him and go out, knowing he needs to go.
I don't know if there is a question in the above or not??? That's what I do pretty much every day of the week. I work 7 days a week at home and my wife 6 in an office environment. Anything that you think I should change in the routine etc?
Thanks.
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Post by willow on Mar 13, 2007 9:00:12 GMT -5
You are fortunate to be able to work at home so you can take your puppy out often during the day and it sounds like you do take him out quite a bit.
The only things I would change is that I see no reason to have seperate training/potty times. I always combine the two for a few minutes twice a day, by taking the puppy/dog out, let them go potty, do some training exercises, give them the opportunity to potty again and then back inside. On other trips outside, it's just basically potty time, but you can still incorporate the "sit" by having him sit before putting on and taking off the leash, and having him heel to and from the potty spot.
He should also have some time outside just to be a puppy and romp around, experience all the different smells, and sights of the city, chase a ball etc., and if there isn't a safe place you can take him for this, you can put a long rope on him so he has more freedom than the leash allows, but he is still completely under your control.
I would also give him more time out of the crate during the day, but instead of letting him have free roam of the house, I would have a blanket near where you are working, put the leash on him and teach him to lie quietly near you as you work on your computer. As he gets older and gets the idea, you can remove the leash and just give him the "bed" or "place" command or whatever word you want to use so he knows to go and lie quietly on his "bed". This is also very useful for times he doesn't have to be in the crate, but when you don't want him roaming all over the house when you can't watch him or say, when company comes and you don't (I hope) want the company subjected to your dog being all over them demanding affection from them.
All in all it sounds like you are doing a great job with your puppy.
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Post by bobbenson on Mar 21, 2007 18:30:08 GMT -5
This is a few questions in one post:
1. I'm a week away from leaving my almost 7 mo old boxer pup with friends. I put the two dogs together two weeks ago and they played fine. My male pup was definitely submissive to the other female who is much larger. I have never had any indication of aggression issues with other dogs.
Two days ago, some neighbors moved in with a male 2 year old boxer (mine is a male as well). In playing, the other larger dog layed on his back and my puppy got on top of him. Mine was chasing and nipping at the other dog who wore out after a while. I gathered from a comment the other dog owner made, that his dog had laid on his back while playing with other dogs as well.
I've been to the dog park an number of times, although I've been a bit scared off on that from posts made by others here and elsewhere. While at the dog park, my dog interacts well and plays with other dogs. It's been several weeks since I have been to the dog park and his personality changes day to day as he is growing. By that, I mean he now figures out he is taller and can try to take a peek at whats on the counter or other push the limits sort of mischiefness.
Is his getting on top of the larger dog in any way an aggressive act? They were playing and the other dog allowed it. Everybody had wagging tails. It just kind of surprised me that the larger older male would allow that?
2. He's finally asking to go out. The thing is, I still am timing him for going out, but I try to get him to ask. The bell thing hasn't worked, but his collar and leash are by the door. He will go over and nudge them and then stare at me. The collar is a pinch collar. Since I only put it on him when we go out, I think he has a positive association with it. The problem is, he may just want to go out to play. Also, I can quickly take him out to pee, but for a no. 2 it may be a half hour until he gets the urge. If I know he is due for a no 2, I spend the half hour.
When he asks to go out, I want to capitalize on that action and reward him by taking him out asap. We are in a condo with no yard. On the other hand, if he asks to go out, and really just wants to go out and play and maybe kind of needs to pee, I don't want to do that.
In other posts, people have said that you don't want to go out every hour or two. That's what he will ask to do right now. My solution has been to crate him just before I think he wants to ask, if it has only been an hour or so. That way he can't ask. Then when I let him out of the crate, he will wander around a bit, check things out, take a drink of water, then usually ask to go out. When he does this I take him out.
Any words of wisdom, suggestions?
Thanks as always.
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