Mic
puppy
Posts: 3
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Post by Mic on Feb 18, 2004 12:19:10 GMT -5
I was reading over the site and I saw a little negativity towards pet store training programs, and I wanted to make a few comments.
I recently finished a PetSmart puppy class & basic OB, and they were wonderful. There were about 7 other dogs in the classes...the instructor taught us all the basic commands and gave us a program to work on at home. My dog was able to socialize in a dog friendly, safe environment. His behavior has improved tremendously, and he LOVES going every week.
A few things I would keep in mind about pet store training. They are focusing on making well rounded family pets. The trainers are not working towards obedience trails and don't generally work with dogs that have serious behavior problems. They make happy, healthy, postively trained, family pets.
I found the trainers to be very knowledgeable. They may not have 10 yrs of experience, but they are generally well trained and carefully selected. It is a huge liability for a company like PetSmart to hire an incompetent trainer.
Anyway, I had a good experience, and would reccomend the basic and puppy classes to any one who is just looking for a well rounded family dog training class at a good price. I'm sure taining varies from store to store, but the one I found was exactly what I was looking for. The best thing about it is if you don't feel you got your moneys worth you can take the class again or get your money back no questions asked. I am betting the people that are unhappy with traing classes are the ones who aren't doing the work at home.
Anyway, Thanks for listening Mic
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Post by Willow on Feb 18, 2004 12:29:44 GMT -5
Hi Mic, Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Of course, there are always exceptions to everything, and I am happy your experience was a positive one.
It also sounds like you are a responsible dog owner with a lot of common sense, which is sorely lacking today, not only in a lot of pet owner's, but pet trainer's, and a lot of time the problem does lie with the owner's who want a well trained dog without doing what it takes to achieve that goal.
After all, a dog is only as well trained as you, the owner, require it to be.
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Post by Brooke on Feb 18, 2004 17:37:29 GMT -5
Welcome Mic ;D Thank you for sharing your experience! It is always good to have another perspective on it. You make very valid points that I can also agree with. I tend to side more against enrolling in that type of training environment for a few reasons. One mostly being lack of experience but you have to start out somewhere anyway, right? ;D Thats understandable. Some dogs do fine in that kind of training. Thats a given otherwise they wouldn't be able to keep the program going. Some don't do so well...in fact many don't.... I met a few trainers at the store here a few months ago that really didn't know anymore about dogs than what they were taught to train. For me personally thats just not enough. Some dogs can be hard to pick out at first whether they would even do good or should be taught in a group. Some dogs can be very unpredictable. For someone with that little of experience I'm just not sure I'd be willing to put my dog in that situation. They need to know how to read a dog well in my opinion. Although, I actually inquired on a training position at a local Petsmart last week, just for the experience. Getting to be near animals is something I could and would love to do everyday in a work environment and it would get me out of the house a bit more... Unfortunately, they had already filled the position the day before. Hopefully we will be moving back home anyway soon. Whenever the military decides to get their "shtuff" together. They are releasing my husband sometime soon with a medical discharge. He fell out of a plane and his parachute didn't open properly. Came down way too fast and landed on his head...
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Post by Kona on Dec 6, 2004 15:54:18 GMT -5
"I found the trainers to be very knowledgeable. They may not have 10 yrs of experience, but they are generally well trained and carefully selected. It is a huge liability for a company like PetSmart to hire an incompetent trainer."
Hmm, I wish that I could completely agree with that comment. While the company is terrific in many ways and has found homes for over 2,000,000 adoptable pets, raises money for animal charities, and provides very high quality animal products, I wouldn't recommend their training classes for anyone other than the average owner of the average dog.
They do not require prospective trainers to have any experience whatsoever. The way it works is they hire people who are interested in becoming pet trainers and put them through an 80-hour training class. Would you honestly like to be in a class with ten other people (and their dogs) taking advice from someone who had just graduated from an 80-hour course? How many dogs of different temperaments, breeds, backgrounds, sizes, and ages can one person be exposed to in that short of a period of time?
The PetSmart trainers are expected to teach puppy classes, basic obedience, advanced obedience, clicker training, seminars including how to introduce your new dog to your children (!), administer the AKC Canine Good Citizen test, and many other tasks. And with PetSmart being the large company that it is, the stress on the trainers is to Sell More Classes, not Become Better Trainers. There is absolutely no continuing education for trainers once they are assigned to a store. None. Zero. Zip. How many professional associations can you think of that do not require or at least encourage continued education for their members?
All of that being said, there are some PetSmart trainers that have years of experience working with dogs and a great deal of practical information to share with their students. But how are you to know? The same way that you know anything. Ask. Call around. If you have a few stores in your area, call and ask to speak with the trainers. Ask the same questions of them that you would of any trainer.
Many of the questions you can ask will simply be answered by company policy (What does the "guarantee" guarantee? What type of motivation do you use in your classes? What if I want my dog to wear a training or pinch collar?), so instead, or in addition, ask personal questions of the trainer. How long have you worked with dogs? What types of training have you done in the past. What other companies have you worked for? Have you personally ever titled a dog in an obedience competition? What books on training can you personally recommend? What's your favorite breed? What breeds do you have difficulty with?
As always, caveat emptor.
[Edited to correct the length of the the PetsMart trainer's course. It is much shorter than I originally stated]
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BeTrue
Trained
Banned
Posts: 217
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Post by BeTrue on Dec 6, 2004 16:19:02 GMT -5
I think it goes by more the individual rather then the company. A really promising trainer with a future career might get hired and be absolutely GREAT with dogs. Then, someone who just wants the money and has only trained one dog in his/her lifetime, might get hired and be horrible, giving people all the wrong ideas and advice. I would go to a Petsmart trainer only after visiting them first and asking them questions. I wouldn't NOT go to one just because he's/she's working at Petsmart, because I'm sure there are some fantastic trainers there.
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Post by Laura on Dec 7, 2004 1:12:44 GMT -5
The bottom line with chain store trainers is "one size fits dog" mentality.
Now that would be perfect if they were all alike ;D. Alas, in our unperfect world, dogs are diverse, in both size, shape, color and temperament. Not every method works well on every dog, and not every dog works well with one method. Diversity of training styles, knowledge of breed specific traits, and getting the gut feeling that a trainer would do the job for free just for the love of it are what you need to look for when trying to find a trainer.
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Post by Kona on Dec 7, 2004 2:33:26 GMT -5
I think it goes by more the individual rather then the company. Well, obviously. The company isn’t training you or your dog, the individual is. I was giving specific information about the company in question, and the practices it uses in hiring and training its pet trainers. A really promising trainer with a future career might get hired and be absolutely GREAT with dogs. Then, someone who just wants the money and has only trained one dog in his/her lifetime, might get hired and be horrible, giving people all the wrong ideas and advice. Yes, pretty much as I said. I would go to a Petsmart trainer only after visiting them first and asking them questions. I wouldn't NOT go to one just because he's/she's working at Petsmart, because I'm sure there are some fantastic trainers there. Again, pretty much as I said, except for the part about “fantastic” trainers. Did you read what I said about the education they get there?
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BeTrue
Trained
Banned
Posts: 217
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Post by BeTrue on Dec 7, 2004 13:23:16 GMT -5
Yes, but what if, for example, _____________ (fill in your favorite trainer... ;D) were to have worked there as a beginner and working her way up to the top? Its not like someone who knows nothing goes over, takes the training course, and then just shares what they have learned from that training course (well..maybe some do). Some have a lot of experience, like working with various shelter dogs, or having a lot of hands on experience with their own dogs. I have to agree with what Laura said though as well. They probably do have a 'one size fits dog' type of thing, which would work out okay for most puppies and some adult dogs. The only problem arises when someone with a dog that needs something other then what they could read in a book themselves. (p.s. I wasn't directing anything I said to you, Kona, in my last post. I was only giving my personal point of view on the subject. )
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Post by Kona on Dec 7, 2004 16:09:07 GMT -5
Yes, but what if, for example, _____________ (fill in your favorite trainer... ;D) were to have worked there as a beginner and working her way up to the top? The top? Top of what? There is no “top” when you are teaching group O.B. classes in the doggy equivalent of a department store. Each PetSmart is divided into departments (Training, Grooming, Aquatics, Equine, etc.), and there is only so far that one can go in each department. If the company likes you enough to keep you then you stay right where you are. You might get a raise in pay, but even that is covered by company guidelines. If they like you enough to promote you then they make you a manager. How many managers do you think there are teaching obedience classes? Its not like someone who knows nothing goes over, takes the training course, and then just shares what they have learned from that training course (well..maybe some do). Yes, actually that’s exactly the way that it works. That’s all that they are allowed to do. No matter if the trainer is doing their very first class or their 500th, they still have to say exactly what they were told to say during their training course. Some have a lot of experience, like working with various shelter dogs, or having a lot of hands on experience with their own dogs. But what difference does that make if they aren’t allowed to use their personal experience to help you and your dog? For instance, let’s say that you show up at a class with a food-possessive dog, one who bites when you try to touch his food bowl. An inexperienced trainer will say, “I’m sorry, but our company policy is that we are not allowed to have you in our class. I suggest that you get in touch with a behaviorist who deals with aggressive dogs.” But what if the trainer has years of personal experience dealing with that exact problem, and feels that they know exactly what to do to help you? You want to know what they would say? “I’m sorry, but our company policy is that we are not allowed to have you in our class…” See what I mean? Just some points to consider.
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BeTrue
Trained
Banned
Posts: 217
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Post by BeTrue on Dec 7, 2004 16:18:00 GMT -5
I'm not a 'debating' type of person (or maybe I am...I guess it depends on what.. ;D), and you really did bring up some great points. Just wanted to clear some of the statements up.
When I said 'top' I mean as in someday perhaps owning your own training grounds and working with as many dogs as possible. I'm hoping to work at a Petco next year as a trainer's helper. I understand that the trainers can't share anything other then what they've been shown, but basic knowledge and hands on work does come in handy. Pet stores can't possibly cover everything that will come along, and if someone were to, for example, ask about their dog's housebreaking troubles, it would help to have a basic knowledge on the topic to be able to discuss with the person on what they could do.
I know the majority of petstores aren't worth spending money on, but it doesn't hurt to check some out to see if the trainer would suit your dog. If I had an aggressive dog, I wouldn't think of bringing him to a petstore. But if I had a well-socialized puppy who I just wanted to have fun with and get him to meet new people and maybe pick up on a few pointers, I might consider a petstore.
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Post by Kona on Dec 7, 2004 16:47:54 GMT -5
BeTrue: Excellent points, and a good attitude that you have. If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? I think that working at a pet store as a trainer or a trainer's assistant (although I don't think that PetSmart has that position, but correct me if I'm wrong) is a great idea, regardless of the methods that they use. Every place that you work is a card up your sleeve, and every technique that you learn is a tool to add to your toolbox.
My advice to young (or new) trainers is to work at as many facilities as possible during the first years of your career. If at all possible, spend some time trying to find a good trainer, and then move heaven and earth to become his apprentice, even if it is for little or no money. You will never regret it.
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BeTrue
Trained
Banned
Posts: 217
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Post by BeTrue on Dec 8, 2004 11:34:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the tips! I'm 17, and would love to become a trainer. The only thing stopping me is that people keep telling me 'you can't make a living being a dog trainer'. I'm still trying, and I'll hopefully be working at a shelter soon. Theres a few trainers I'd really love to work under, and hopefully they'll let me. Thanks again!
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Post by Kona on Dec 8, 2004 18:51:45 GMT -5
That's funny. The problem isn't making money, it's usually the people that you have to deal with. People in the animal industry often don't have the best people skills. Also, as with most other fields, education can play a huge roll in how much money you make in the long run. Stick with it, and get as much experience as you can. And ask people like me who love to give advice.
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Post by Laura on Dec 8, 2004 23:39:08 GMT -5
Oh yes you can, and a pretty good one at that . Besides, someone once told me " do what you love, and the money will follow" .
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BeTrue
Trained
Banned
Posts: 217
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Post by BeTrue on Dec 9, 2004 9:35:24 GMT -5
Thanks guys for the encouragement. Its nice to hear GOOD things about being a trainer once in a while. Anyways, sorry for changing the topic again...
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