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Post by willow on Oct 12, 2006 12:19:11 GMT -5
I have seen in his new season now where he is making a lot of the dogs he is working with "sit", so I guess he is going to also be a " dog trainer" now?! Awhile back there was also a comment made that Cesar said if your energy is right, a dog will not become aggressive towards you? I recently saw an episode about a white GSD a lady had that was supposed to be her therapy dog, but the dog was extremely aggressive. Cesar came and worked with the dog and when he went back later, the dog lunged at him and would have attacked him if the boy holding the leash hadn't prevented it, and what did Cesar do? Probably what any normal, intelligent person facing an aggressive dog would do. He jumped up so fast from the bench he was sitting on and moved very quickly away from the dog. Well, maybe his "energy" was low that day. I have also seen him get bitten by other dogs....so my comment is: "What does energy have to do with it?"
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Post by sibemom on Oct 12, 2006 12:51:51 GMT -5
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Post by Aussienot on Oct 14, 2006 17:30:41 GMT -5
I think we've all seen people who seem to 'have a way with dogs'. The natural handlers who can take a dog and make it respond. They stand tall, they move with confidence, they breathe normally, they firmly believe the dog WILL do it, and they watch and respond to the slightest signal from the dog. (I think some of us are actually like that.) Call it 'energy', call it knowledge, call it attitude. Project that, and many dogs will respond.
I think the dogs do pick up on mental weakness in people. If you are inconsistent, if your tone of voice is weak, if your body posture and breathing are stilted, very few dogs are going to respond. Calling it 'energy' is just good new age marketing.
But it's not 100%. If a dog has grown to maturity thinking he is pack leader and he is secure in that belief, there will be a few challenges to the stranger who is trying to de-throne him. Or a dog with serious fear submission. Call yourself a dog trainer, dog whisperer, behaviorist, put on any title that you want. Most people who have worked with 100 dogs would have been bitten at least once and would have have close calls many times.
Most of the time I am working the postive energy vibe on the 80/20 rule, but luckily my paycheck does not depend on a tv camera following me around.
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Post by willow on Oct 16, 2006 8:59:01 GMT -5
Yes! You are correct Aussie.
Cesar calls it being "calm and assertive". You stand tall, appear confident and walk with purpose, and it does work with most dogs most of the time, but with an extremely fear aggressive dog, which I think this white GSD was just from the way it reacted to every thing, simply being "calm and assertive" does not and did not work.
At the beginning of the segment he actually had to hold a trash can between himself and the dog, who was cowering in a corner of the yard, so he could get a slip leash over his head.
I wasn't criticizing Cesar. I actually give him a lot of credit for leaving in things like this when he could easily edit them out to make himself look good. I was just making the point that "energy" or being "calm and assertive" does not work 100% of the time, because dogs are individuals and you never know what they might do.
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Post by Laura on Oct 16, 2006 23:34:54 GMT -5
Aussie's right, calm and assertive goes pretty far, but it's never 100% with every dog you meet, and that goes for every trainer. I got creamed this summer, bitten more in three months than I have in 20 years , three dogs got me (and sooprise, sooprise, all small toy breeds : , and I was as calm as one could get around the little snots. The worst I took was about 6 bites in the hands and wrists from an 11 lb. Maltese mix, unfortunately she was not salveagable and was euthanized . I made some real enemies over this particular dog, was bashed by another trainer, and the whole thing generally took a lot of my time this summer. Long story, Maryellens' already heard the sad tale of woe ;D, so I'll bore you all another time, but I want to start another thread about professionalism and ethics in training.
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Post by maryellen on Oct 17, 2006 8:07:17 GMT -5
while i can say i watch cesar milan, i cant stand that some novice owners use his alpha roll techniques and such.. i have been in contact w/ a woman who adopted a pit bull from a shelter near me, and i did her application. she passed as she had a bully before with alot of issues,and she and her husband knew alot.. well.... i am now arguing with her as she ADORES cesar, and thinks he is god..... never mind that i told her to keep the dog on leash for the next month, never mind that she didnt listen and the dog is shredding the house objects up and peeing on the couch, but hey, who am i?? laura knows me, i know her, and the story on the maltese is truly amazing..
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Post by Dom on Oct 17, 2006 9:20:30 GMT -5
I use to watch Cesar every week. I have stopped lately. I sat in on two different seminars by other trainers and started to get very annoyed. They preach Alpha, Dominance, and Calm assertive then toss Cesar's name into the mix as if it validates their techniques and explanations. I really do like Cesar but the small clips we see that make up his program is not everything. There is a lot of time with the dogs that we don't see. Not to mention when he does the 30 day boot camp. Some people think they can say "Shhh" and alakazam the dog will be perfect. One trainer I went to recently proclaimed she KNEW why a member of the audience was having problems with her dog crapping on the floor. The lady's dog "thought it was the ALPHA and was showing Dominance when he pooped in the house!!" I looked over at my husband puzzled. The trainer then proceeded to tell the owner that after she "found" a pile on the floor she needed to bring the dog to the deed and grunt (the trainer actually demonstrated the grunt-sounded more like a monkey ) her disapproval. In the next sentence she used the famed "be calm assertive " like Cesar when they did it and may need to alpha roll the dog. My husband couldn't control himself any longer and just started laughing. The trainer looked at him and asked him for his input. My husband asked how old the dog was. It was 14 weeks. He also found out the lady blocked the PUPPY into the living room unsupervised for 8 hours of the day while she was at work. He concluded lack of supervision and lack of proper training. Guess some think you have to dig into a dog's psyche for everything. Tossing the words Alpha, Calm Assertive, Energy and Dominance around is just too easy for some "trainers". Especially with CESAR to back their claims. I am sure he would be disappointed hearing how others have been using his name to solidify their own techniques. I do like Cesar and agree with a lot of what he says. I think that now that he is mainstream many people are distorting his words and techniques then saying "But Cesar said it or did it". The energy thing I do agree with... to a point. Dogs do pick up on the attitudes and how calm the people are around them. Just like when my mom screamed when Doogie lunged. She elevated the level of excitement and with some dogs excitement and aggression are a fine line.
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