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Post by sibemom on Sept 22, 2006 7:00:53 GMT -5
Since I find the debate section very helpful to get part of my thinking process REHABILITATED Let's go a step farther. Let's talk about the exact method we start our dogs from the beggining. Lets map out to each other how we take, and lets just talk about puppies we can talk about older dogs in later ;D Explain what you do from the moment you bring your pup home, potty training, commands, no bite, etc... and then once everyone has posted their methods let's talk about successes and failures with them OK WHO IS FIRST?
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Post by willow on Sept 22, 2006 10:35:14 GMT -5
I say the one who starts the topic should go first, so you have the floor, er board, Sibemom.
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Post by sibemom on Sept 22, 2006 11:36:53 GMT -5
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Post by espencer85 on Sept 22, 2006 14:02:29 GMT -5
Lets talk about potty training for a puppy, that means not to do it inside the house:
You have to be alert, since the puppy will want to be around you often you will be able to catch the moment when he is planning to pee, at that same moment (before he starts) you can just clap hard and say "no", at that moment the puppy will redirect his attention to the noise and forget for a couple seconds that he was ready to poop or pee, he will notice that he was about to do something you dont like, at that moment grab the leash and take him outside, when you are outside he will realize that you are now relax, he will poop and learn that if he does that inside he gets an angry leader but outside has not repercutions
If you try to do it after that happened already is too late to apply a correction because he will think that you dont like him to pee at all, so it has to be before so he can feels the difference in your attitude
Dont "baby him" after he did something wrong, is like saying a teen ager "you toke my credit card and bought a lot, dont do it again ok? please?" the teen ager wont take you serious as well as the dog, like i said, he has to learn wrong from right and that what is making him go where ever he wants
This way you dont have to be taking him out every 5 minutes to see IF he wants to poop, specially at night, i rather to clean the kitchen floor a couple times in the morning while he is learning not to go inside the house than not having a full night sleep because i'm taking the dog every hour to see if he decided to go or not, which suck when he decides to go between the times i was waiting to taking him out, full night sleep, happy owner, not full night sleep, angry owner the rest of the day and puppy peeing inside anyways, it worked for me
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Post by willow on Sept 22, 2006 14:12:22 GMT -5
This way you dont have to be taking him out every 5 minutes to see IF he wants to poop, specially at night, i rather to clean the kitchen floor a couple times in the morning while he is learning not to go inside the house than not having a full night sleep because i'm taking the dog every hour to see if he decided to go or not, which suck when he decides to go between the times i was waiting to taking him out, full night sleep, happy owner, not full night sleep, angry owner the rest of the day and puppy peeing inside anyways, it worked for me I disagree with this, because if you do not want the puppy to get in the habit of going in the house, that means at night too, so what you do is either confine the puppy in a crate and set your alarm clock for every couple of hours and get up and take the puppy out, or confine him to a small area with newspapers on the floor and a blanket in one corner for his bed. It goes without saying that if the puppy whines any time during the night, take him outside immediately, let him go potty and then right back into the crate or confined area. Most puppies, unless they are pet store puppies, do not want to soil their bed and they will whine/cry to go out when they have to go. If you don't do this you may very well start the bad habit of soiling his crate or bed and you sure don't want this! If they should have an accident on the paper at night it is no big deal. Just pick up the paper. If you have a thick enough layer, it won't even soil your floor, and "no" it won't get the puppy in the habit of going potty in the house or in that spot unless you don't clean the floor good if the paper isn't thick enough. This is the method I always used with my puppies (before crates were invented. )and my puppies were always completely house trained at an early age.
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Post by Richard on Sept 22, 2006 14:31:14 GMT -5
First time we brought Rocky in the house, he was on the leash, taken right out back to where we wanted him to "go"...and said "hurry up, go pee/poo". When/if, he went, we'd praise like heck. The rest of the time, it was like this: When he woke up in the morning - on the leash, right outside - same spot, use the buzz words, when/if, he went, we praised like heck. When he'd finish eating - on the leash, right outside - same spot, use the buzz words, when/if, he went, we praised like heck. After we'd play - on the leash, right outside - same spot, use the buzz words, when/if, he went, we praised like heck. After a nap - on the leash, right outside - same spot, use the buzz words, when/if, he went, we praised like heck. After dinner - on the leash, right outside - same spot, use the buzz words, when/if, he went, we praised like heck. We'd take up the water about 9pm (or thereabouts); you don't want to dehydrate puppy but you don't want to be making too many trips outside through the night if possible but we'd still go if necessary. I agree with Loey on the night trips. We kept Rocky in a crate in our room for two reasons: 1. So he could be near the "pack" and get used to hearing us (you can flame me later on that one ) and 2. If he needed to go, we'd hear the whine and follow the same routine above - on the leash, right outside - same spot, use the buzz words, when/if, he went, we praised like heck. The first week or so one of us did get up and take him out a few times in the night until the timings got better for him and us. Within the month of this routine, he figured it out and started going to the back door when he had to go. Yup, there were a few accidents along the way but 99.9% of them were our fault for not paying attention to the signs he was giving us. That is all there is to it. The key is routine and to keep an eye on your puppy, when you see the signs (in-between the above trips), take him/her out. We made sure we all knew the routine and how to handle him the same way. Being a bit more assertive during housebreaking is worth the effort so that we had only a "few" incidents. Nikki OTOH, was a different story but that is an adult dog going from kennel to a house but essentially we applied the same techniques (modified a bit) but use the same words. After a few incidents in the house over the first couple of weeks, Nikki got the routine down once we learned her digestive schedule too.
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Post by Nicole on Sept 22, 2006 14:58:45 GMT -5
NO BITEI taught no bite very simply. At the moment of contact (teeth with skin) I issued a stern “No” and instantly redirected to a stuffy toy and heavily praised. I also praised whenever I would see Reign chewing on an appropriate item on his own so that he would learn that this is a good thing to do. I was very successful with this method. To this day, when he gets very excited, he will grab a toy so that it keeps his mouth occupied and he doesn’t accidently nip. It is adorable!! ;D POTTYI trained the same way as Loey and Richard. Praise when the dog goes outside is essential in my mind. I had a very easy time otherwise because I have a dog door so I never had to take up the water. When Reign was a baby, every night at 4:00 am he cried and cried. We took him out and he peed and pooped every time. After a bit he made it through the night. He goes on command as well. When we went out when he was a little baby (before we had the dog door) I left him in a room with papers to go on if he had to. He almost never soiled. He tried as hard as he could not too. I had no problem transfering from the paper to outside completely. I am looking forward to hearing how others have trained heel since that is our biggest failure. My fault entirely. Not enough practice. I would like to start from scratch on this so I hope someone shares their success.
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Post by espencer85 on Sept 22, 2006 15:13:37 GMT -5
Oh well, if you had success creating your dog is fine, Im not saying that my way is the only way or better The way i did it worked for me perfectly, my dog didnt go inside the house again and i never had to wake up at night to see if my dog wanted to go, just cleaned a couple times WHILE she was learning than going inside was bad, she knew that during the day i get upset because she did it inside so at night she knew that at the moment i could see the same in the morning i was going to have the same reaction (of course not the first times because she was still learning) but after that she picked up that if she was going inside at any time of the day or night then she was going to have an upset owner, it toke me a couple months untill she got it and was able to control it herself too, i can totally tell i feel happy looking back and had my full night sleep every night
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Post by willow on Sept 22, 2006 15:32:07 GMT -5
Leash trainingPuppies want to follow you by nature. Using this method, I never had a dog who pulled on leash. These exercises are done inside first: When I get puppy home, I put a nylon collar on him and let him get used to it for a day or two. Then I attach a leash to the collar and let him drag it around the house. I only do this for a few minutes at a time several times a day, not all day long. When he is no longer paying any attention to the dragging leash, I pick up the end and put slight pressure/release on it and encourage him to come to me/follow me by talking to him and saying, "name, come on..good boy" etc. I always use his name first so he learns it quickly too, and by being on leash he learns from the beginning to come to his name. I walk around for a few minutes like this and then quit. Now I know everyone else here would use treats. That is up to you. I never did and I never, ever ended up with a dog who pulled on the leash using this method. Once puppy is following you around inside the house, go outside and repeat the exercises. Make sure puppy always follows you, not the other way around.
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Post by willow on Sept 22, 2006 15:55:20 GMT -5
Heel
By the time I start what I call "formal heeling", puppy knows "sit" and to follow me on leash w/out pulling.
I take him outside on leash, and since he has already learned to walk on leash and follow me and pretty much stay to my left (even if walking ahead of me at times), we start walking. I then call his name, say "heel" and pat my left leg to encourage him to take the correct position. If he is ahead of me, I put enough pressure on the leash so he cannot continue walking forward and I catch up to him. I say, "heel" again and commence walking and encouraging him to stay close to my left leg by saying "heel and by "give and take" with the leash when he gets out of position, along with the leg patting etc. I praise when he is in the correct position even for a split second.
I also do a lot of "about turns".....I say his name and "heel" and turn around and walk in the opposite direction. I slow down enough to give him time to turn and catch up to me, but I do not stop and wait for him to catch up...I just pat my leg again and say things like, "Buddy, heel...good boy...come on, heel" and then praise the heck out of him when he catches up.
During all the exercises I try to keep a loose leash at all times, and give him time to get into position on his own. The only time I will give a light leash pop is if he does not turn to follow me, but usually this is not needed and they will run to catch up with voice encouragement.
Once he knows the "heel" pretty well, I start incorporating stopping/sitting into the routine.
For an older dog who is already a confirmed "leash puller", and who won't respond to this method, I use a slightly different method with a training collar.
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Post by Nicole on Sept 22, 2006 16:10:03 GMT -5
HEELHe knows the position but decides at whim when he can stop doing it. My challenge now is that I am working with a harness which is actually incredible. He walks beautifully with it. I just have to practice more with the heel and do longer heels. Do you have the dog sit when you stop or just stop? And when you start walking again after stopping do you just walk or say heel again? And what do you do or say to let the dog know that heeling is over? Oddly, he does so great with off leash heel. On leash though, we have issues.
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Post by willow on Sept 22, 2006 17:03:32 GMT -5
HEEL ;D One more point: Before starting any training routine/drill...make sure your dog has had at least 15 to 30 minutes of vigorous exercise first so they have calmed down, or it will just be a battle of wills and a lesson in futility. I usually practice the heel or any other commands after my dogs have had run off leash for at least half of our walk, or on the way home, not when we first start out. I have always trained according to the CKC and AKC obedience standard, so I have my dogs automatically sit when I stop, but most people who Field train do not, because it is often wet/muddy and they don't want their dogs sitting where it is wet/muddy. ;D Of course, for dogs who have been trained according to CKC/AKC standards, this is another place where the "Stand for examination" would come in and you would simply tell your dog to "Stand" if you did not want them to sit. When you stop, whether you have your dog sit or not, you always say the dogs name and "heel" when you start up again. You always say the dogs name first when heeling, when about to execute an about turn while heeling, to alert them to the turn, and for the recall. For other commands, such as "sit" and " down" you do not say their name first. When we are done heeling, I simply say, "o.k." to release them. You can use any thing you want. Some say, "take a break" but I won't use that term simply because I no longer like the so called trainer who uses it. Note also, that heeling is very tiring for a dog, so whenever possible, let them just walk nicely w/out heeling. I save heeling for times when there are other people/dogs around and I don't want them walking over to them, or on our walks if there is a reason I want my dogs to stay close to me, I will put them at "heel". For a dog who decides to stop heeling on his own, that is when I would bring out the training collar and "encourage" him to continue walking at heel until I tell him it's o.k. to stop. Of course, the above rule applies. Make sure he has not been made to heel for such a long time that he is exhausted. That is so cool that Sunny walks nicely in a harnass! Most dogs do not and quickly learn to pull against them! As I always say: "If it isn't broke, don't fix it".
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Post by Nicole on Sept 22, 2006 17:18:06 GMT -5
HEELGreat!! Thanks. That is a great point about the exercise first. Now go back and label your last post Heel otherwise this thread is going to be monsterously disorganized once it gets going. That way also when it is finished people can jump to whatever topic they are interested in.
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Post by sibemom on Sept 22, 2006 17:21:17 GMT -5
Ok I feel refreshed now Here we go: Potty: Before the crate was so popular I just was very watchful of my pups, after eating, drinking, playing, waking I took them outside and said GO POTTY, COME ON GO POTTY, when they would do their thing, GOOD BOY OR GIRL At night I would restrict them in an area with papers down, not to paper train them but JUST IN CASE. When the crate became so popular I then crate trained them, same way only using the crate to contain them at night or when I could not watch them 100%. I also kept the crate close to my bedroom so I could hear them and get up in the night to take them out. This really worked well. If I could catch them right before the act I would yell HEY and go grab them and say OUTSIDE. Sit: The easiest comand to teach and I do it right from the start when I bring a pup home. After a nice round of rub and tickle to tire the little fellow out I get there attention with a toy and with young pups thats like a milo second I hold the toy above their head so they focus on it and then slowly while they are looking at it I back them up untill the butt is almost there and then I say "SIT" and it's a natural thing when the head goes up the butt goes down. REALLY EASY for me this way. I will admit YES I HAVE USED TREATS but usually only their food and not very often. After the Butt is on the ground I say "GOOD SIT" and give them lots of rubs and tickles and I am all goofey and happy about it. By the time most of my pups were 9 weeks old we had a really good sit Heel: Like Loey said puppies natuarly follow their owners and I get them to do this even before I put a leash on them. I like to work these kinds of things in the house so that the entire time I am interacting with them it is also training. Again I will get all silly and happy and call their name first then issue "COME" and start running away from them when they catch up I slow down to a normal walk and you know off leash heeling has always been a strong suit with us it's when I put the leash on sometimes that things RUN A MUCK This I do for awhile untill the puppy starts to come without to much coaxing THEN I start with the leash and pretty much the same procedure only now I am giving the Heel command. IF they would pull I imediatly turn sharply and go in the other direction when they catch up and are in the heel position I give the command HEEL. The one thing that I do not do which I see alot of people do is the dog breaks the heel and they stand there and scream the comand OVER AND OVER AND OVER, heck I would run from that too When the dog holds the position I then praise them again with the rub and tickle No Bite: Well with puppies because they are teething NO I DO NOT CUT THEM SLACK, but I do keep Frozen wash cloths in the freezer so that when I see them turning into ALLIGATOR DOGS I stuff one in their mouth Biting while teething even though not acceptable will get them a bit more slack from me. If they bite and bite and bite, HMMMMM did I have a dog like that once Then I get tough. I always keep a tab on the collar of my pups and this is way before I even use a training collar, this is on their regular flat collar. If puppy comes and mouths my hands first I give a collar tug, and not hard these are young pups so it does not take to much, then I say "NO BITE" and snub them for a good 5 minutes. If it happens again I do the same thing, over and over and over. I use to scream OUCH but that never worked that would put them more into an excieted freenzy. If this continues past their baby stage then yes I will get out a training collar and give them a good collar correction, but most often just that light one with a firm NO BITE and the cold shoulder works pretty good. I do not praise them for not biting me, I don't know if I ever talked about that before. I will not praise a dog for stopping a bad behavior, I just stop the behavior and move forward. I do give verbal praise for following commands that I teach them. I guess I always thought it was strange to say "GOOD BOY YOU DID NOT RIP MY HAND OFF " Ok that's it for now Let's see the next ones would be DOWN, COME, WAIT OR STAY and the most important LEAVE IT .
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Post by sibemom on Sept 22, 2006 17:30:18 GMT -5
Oh and thank you all for participating I think all the methods mentioned so far, well not my own of course I do not praise myself are great ways of starting a pup and I also think that the learning phase should be fun, of course with structure and rules but fun
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