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Post by Kona on Dec 10, 2004 15:38:21 GMT -5
(minor thread-jack)
Willow - the only suggestion I would make is to not give a verbal command for anything that you want to eventually become automatic. Using the verbal "Sit" command during obedience is great, but if you simply use the leash and your body language to convey that you want your dog to sit automatically when you stop walking, there are a couple of benefits.
One is that you don't have to wean the dog off of the verbal command, which can be confusing, and the other is that it allows the dog the opportunity to correctly figure out what you want him to do. It might sound silly, but I honestly feel that dogs get a huge feeling of satisfaction when they think something through, come to a correct conclusion, and are rewarded for it.
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Post by Willow on Dec 10, 2004 17:21:36 GMT -5
You know, in thinking back to when I first began, now that you mention it, we did do it the way you suggest. No verbal "sit", and it was only in recent yrs. that I changed, because I read that the "sit" command should be given! No wonder we are all so confused. Otoh, I really wonder if it makes that much difference, because either way, most dogs learn the automatic sit quickly and I never had a problem with it either way. ;D
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Post by Kona on Dec 11, 2004 2:46:29 GMT -5
lol, yeah, I guess it was kind of a minor point.
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GWPSage
Trained
Back in the saddle again
Posts: 201
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Post by GWPSage on Dec 12, 2004 23:46:37 GMT -5
I agree and believe the Kohler method is a little out dated. The days of "corperal" (sp) punishment are over in the human/ dog world. However! There is a time and a place for everything. Kohler had his critics, his controversal methods have revolutionized the way we view our dogs. His influence is apparant in many methods today. The breakdown is in the application, if you correct your dog in anger regardless of the "severity" of the correction you will get a negative result. Kohler set very distinct boundries with his dogs, was he unfair? He was consistant, demanded results, and gave the dogs what they live for, "acceptance". Not goodies or half hearted "good boys". A "friend" of mine was "training" a dog that should have really been euthd. He felt it was "safe" for me to handle this BOXER (big shock) He was afraid of. If I did not read the book, I would have been mauled SEVERAL times. Was my correction unfair? NO it was equal to the force of the dog. When the dog was done fighting, unfortunatly ended up on the ground. I let the pressure off, pat him on the shoulder and we went on with life. The dog was not resentfull because he knew WHY he was getting corrected. All he knew as he was lunging at me something cought him in the air. He did not see ME administer the correction. We repeated this process THREE times. At the end of the session he was working with more confidence than before I picked up the leash. No growling, snapping, or lunging. He knew his position and felt secure. Did it fix him? Probably not, the dog was 6 years old, intact and had severly mauled several people. It would not have been fair for me to do it ONCE and as soon as I was free leave him. That would have left him confused, and insecure. Again the breakdown is with how it is administered not what you do. Besides in my experience most trainers have their "behind the barn" methods, even the most PP of them.
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Post by Rowan on Dec 22, 2004 14:20:25 GMT -5
just interesting was talking to my breeder, mentor and mostly after all these years friend if not practicly family member. But she trained her first GSD's under Koehler. She described him as a demanding individual, direct, and very passionate about what he did and accomplished. Having GSD's and working with them she never needed to be as heavy handed as he taught in his training methods found some of his methods harsh and abrasive to the dogs.
But having to working with owners that did not do the training with there dogs and owners whom had more stubborn breeds (old english mastifs where the rage at that time) she could see how easy it was for him to make an imediant point to those dogs during class when they were refusing to adhear to the program.
just a insight from someone whom had worked with him.
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Post by ixtlan on Feb 14, 2005 22:49:39 GMT -5
I trained my last dog Ki, using the koehler method. I thought I had found the last word on dog training. Ki was perfect off leash in town for 14 years. He was my best friend and I loved him. Everyday he ran free in the mountians behind my house, with me and I loved every minute of it. I taught a somewhat harsh method with love and it worked out. I am using a 85% motivational and 15% correctional method these days with my new friend. It works great and is much more fun than the Koehler method, which is similar in many ways. I looked around, and that is what works best for me. Love and respect are the things I think matter most.
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