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Post by Aussienot on Mar 18, 2004 17:13:52 GMT -5
Here's a topic that might spark some discussion:
Ear Cropping is already outlawed here in Australia, and by the end of this year Tail Docking will also be banned in every state bar one. Of course, vets will still be able to dock an injured tail, just not dock to prevent an injury. (Working herding dogs may be exempt, they're still fighting that one out)
Is this an enlightened state of animal kindness, or a case of politically correct bleeding hearts gone power mad?
Would you ear crop or tail dock a puppy if you had the choice, and do you think it should be legislated?
Personnally, I wouldn't choose to ear dock, even if it was breed standard. I do think it's barbarically cruel and horribly painful for no real gain other than cosmetic.
I think tail docking is different. If done early and correctly is no big deal to the animal, certainly is much less painful than branding, which is still practiced.
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Post by sibemom on Mar 18, 2004 18:07:41 GMT -5
I agree ear docking is to much but tails are no big issue especially if done early enough and done the right way. I have seen dogs butchered by having their ears and tails done. I don't think it should be outlawed BUT maybe it should be closely watched. My dad raised springers and he did the tails himself and at a very early age. The vet showed him how to do it and it was never a problem and that is because he took great care while doing it. Ears are a touchy subject with me. Like you said there is so much discomfort and for what looks I would never crop ears EVER
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Post by Laura on Mar 18, 2004 20:47:27 GMT -5
I don't care for the practice of docking or cropping, more for the reason that it's unnecessary. I'm a big believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", but if you must do it, tails only, please. So many of the dogs that I've seen pass thru the shelters around here have godawful homemade crop jobs , which judging by the amount of scar tissue, were done too late, which means real painful as the cartilage toughens up with age . Especially with APBT's, jeez, the dogs have a bad enough rap, cropping doesn't help the cause. But i also know of dogs who needed their tails removed simply for the reason of them suffering from "happy tail syndrome", and having the dog in the vets office to be patched up constantly gets ridiculous .
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Post by Nicole on Mar 18, 2004 21:17:37 GMT -5
Personally, I like the natural look. I don't agree with either ear or tail docking unless there is reason to believe that the tail will become injured by leaving it as is. So much communication and expression is done with the tail. It is almost like clipping short a tongue.
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Post by Laura on Mar 18, 2004 21:19:28 GMT -5
I know a few humans I could gladly do that to !
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Post by Brooke on Mar 19, 2004 2:43:03 GMT -5
I can't say I particularly agree with cropping although I think it can look pretty nice if done properly. I like the longer crop than the shorter crop. We got into this discussion pretty good at another forum. I would never crop my dog and the only way I would dock would be for medical purpouses and still I would hate doing it but would if it was necissary. I love the natural look.
Docking is fine with me as long as it is done within the first 1-2 days after birth and I just flat out do not agree with cropping a dog for no reason. I have heard people say if it is done within the first couple days as well they don't feel it because the nerve endings aren't as sensitive but how the heck often does that happen? Most dogs are cropped at what? Two to three months old? I wouldn't want someone cutting my ears apart...why would I do that to my dog?
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Post by Willow on Mar 20, 2004 15:50:45 GMT -5
So much communication and expression is done with the tail. It is almost like clipping short a tongue. I can't see any reason to clip ears, but since I am owned by my first *Little miss wiggle butt* I don't think a dog needs a tail to communicate. She does just fine, plus also having a breed with a full tail, and having always had breeds with full tails prior to Kerra, I can definately see advantages to the docked tail, but of course, ONLY if done shortly after birth.
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Post by GSDRottiePeiGirl on May 19, 2004 21:17:04 GMT -5
I don't like cropping of ears, but a Rottie wouldn't look like a Rottie with a full tail. Docking, if done right & early in life it's okay.
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HazelNutMeg
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We Make a Hell of a Team!
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Post by HazelNutMeg on Jun 23, 2004 2:50:48 GMT -5
A few months ago if you had asked me this there would have been no question in my mind. I would have said "no way, nope. Cropping = BAD". But after doing a bit more research, and talking to some AmStaff owners I've changed my mind. I don't know if I would personally do it, I will have to wait until I get my AmStaff pup and see if I would go through with it or not. I'm not sure. I like the natural look, but I really like the cropped look too. I think it's all in a matter of opinion, AS LONG AS IT'S DONE CORRECTLY. Which quite frankly is hard to find a vet who is experienced in ears and can do a really good job. Plus there are some problems that can occur, so it just might not be worth it. But I would never tell people who have had their dog's ears cropped that it's a bad and horrible thing to do. As long as they didn't do it (inexerpienced) themselves But I personally, am not totally against it now. As for tail docking, I personally like the tailed look (Crystal, even in Rotties, I think they look AWSOME with a tail ) but that's just me. I just don't find it as attractive to umm... see a dog's bum like that I LOVE Aussie tails, I just don't like the upkeep :)I've groomed two aussies with tails in my little life, and they were both a hassle, but WELL worth it because they have GORGOUS tails! ;D
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Post by Willow on Jun 23, 2004 13:25:03 GMT -5
I've groomed two aussies with tails in my little life, and they were both a hassle, but WELL worth it because they have GORGOUS tails! ;D Really? I have never seen a purebred Aussie with a tail!! What do their tails look like? The reason I ask is because I still think my other dog was more Aussie than BC and he had the most beautiful plume of a tail I have ever seen on any BC! When he carried it in the normal down position, it just about touched the ground, and when he held it up, the tip fell into a gorgeous plume.
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Post by sheeba on Jun 23, 2004 13:31:13 GMT -5
I have never seen an aussie with a tail, but it would explain a lot about my dog. Always thought to be a lab/chessie when she was a pup she grew into a 20 in 37 lb dog certainly something smaller than a chessie, also the tail, a beautiful plume she wants to herd and is pretty intense so we thought border collie, but if aussies have magnificant tail also unless docked we may have something here. My dog looks a lot like a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retreiver of you just want to take a look to see what she is like.
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Post by fireworksinjuly on Jun 23, 2004 13:51:20 GMT -5
Our Min Pins both have their ears cropped. This was doen before I became part of the family. My fiances mother went out of her way to find a vet to do it, most vets around here refused to.
But honestly I dont like it. Its not natural, it cant feel good, and it serves no purpose.
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Post by sibemom on Jun 23, 2004 16:49:55 GMT -5
I don't care for docked ears either, I don't have a problem with the tails though, and I understand why certain hunting breeds have this done. When going through the brush if I am not mistaken, it makes it easier for them, and less chance of injury. My mom's dog is a cocker/terrier and he was one of my rescue pup's. I was going to have his tail done but she said no, and now I can see at 9 yrs old he has the most beautiful tail. It's like the whole dew claw thing to. Not really nessesary unless you are doing certain sports with you dog. I had Blades taken off when he was neutered because in pulling he could have caused severe injury to himself. Now with Willow I don't know if you take the dew's off of a GSD? I suppose it is all a matter of preference but I do like floppy ears ;D
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Post by Willow on Jun 23, 2004 19:40:55 GMT -5
Ann, didn't the breeder do the pups dews? Does Willow have her dews? Most breeder's have the dews removed when just a few days old, same time as tail docking. Or at least they used to. My registered Labs always came with dews removed. The longer you wait, the harder it is on the dog and a Vet told me they don't like to do it at all once a dog is past puppy stage, unless it is an emergency, such as one partially ripped off or something. Same as tail docking. Most vets won't do it even at 8 weeks etc., because they say they can have the "phantom" (where did the spell check go?) thing, where they still think they have a full tail, plus the healing time is a lot longer.
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HazelNutMeg
Trained
We Make a Hell of a Team!
Posts: 335
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Post by HazelNutMeg on Jun 23, 2004 19:44:03 GMT -5
In reference to the aussie tail... they weren't PUREBREDS, but the tail was deffently aussie. I'd seen a couple aussies with tails on tv and at a couple agility trials too, and I have to say, gorgous none the less Jasper was a Blue Merle Aussie + Lab + ACD (sorry it's a crappy pic, it's the only one of him on the comp I have that you can see his tail... even though you can't see it that well... I will see if I can use my neighbor's scanner of a better picture! ;D): And Hazel was a Red Aussie + Red BC: www.geocities.com/fly_n_woof/Pictures_Page3.html The third picture down on there shows her tail pretty good too
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