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Post by Nicole on Feb 5, 2004 13:13:22 GMT -5
What a great discussion. I agree. Sorry I don't have anything meaningful to add other than that I do think we have come a long way in educating the public and hopefully some day the AKC will stop thinking about its wallet , or the lawmakers will get involved and we can extinquish puppy mills, pet stores and BYB and bring this sad situation to a manageable level. Probably not in my lifetime. In the meantime...I certainly don't have the answer.
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Post by Laura on Feb 5, 2004 16:12:37 GMT -5
Cathy, glad to get your input. I, too, am of the mindset that not every dog can or should be saved. The Wheaton that was brought in was a headcase, but you know what I found telling? Those people had the dog since it was a pup, I don't think that dog was genetically aggressive, I think that dog was the result of owner error, allowing it get away with that behavior. As for the Cocker, she predetermined the outcome of that test right from the getgo, and that was wrong. The film was terribly one sided, and hope to hell it doesn't make the general public think that it's the only solution.
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Post by Ioana on Feb 6, 2004 14:45:20 GMT -5
We had a similar discussion on the catforum (ran by Dog..um catman ). It started because of cats but it included stray animals in general. I believe that they are our responsability as a society. As I was saying earlier in this same thread - we may not have the possibility to find homes for all of them. But I think it would be very nice to invest money in the shelters and transform them in animal centers where people that are not so sure about adopting could go and learn about animals, where children could have recreational classes and interract with the pets. I guess it would take a lot of finances to do so - Those animals have done nothing wrong and are yet living a life in hell. It is like we don't have enough room under the sun
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Post by Brooke on Feb 6, 2004 15:42:55 GMT -5
I've seen other boards having discussions about this and brought up the education in schools would maybe contribute positively in this problem. As great as it would be to have kids learn about all this in school I don't know..I'm on the fence. First of all who's going to teach those classes and/or train those teachers? Who is going to decide what is right to train or wrong to train? Dog training and behavior is a very controversial thing. Even so...I'm not so sure if it would do much good. How often have you been to a forum and seen a kid talking about how they want dogs but don't live a life that is really set up for it...I don't know how exactly to word that.... For instance I remember awhile back (I don't remember on what forum it was) having a discussion about a girl who had a dog that they kept tied up to a tree outdoors night and day. They did not have a fenced in yard. The dog was not trained at all. The dog was resulting in behavioral problems because of this. Some smart person in this forum decided to suggest that the girl get another dog to accompany the other and maybe that would help...well of course this 12 yr old or however old she was thought that was the greatest idea ever. Her parents didn't even want the dog they had. No matter how much you talked to this child about how bad of an idea it was, giving her examples and trying to talk her out of it, she thought it was the greatest idea ever. Of course it didn't fly thank god when she brought it up to her parents but I'm not so sure kids are going to really take all that in. They don't really grasp the concept... I honestly feel that the biggest fight should be against the puppy mills. I think if the government would shut them down we would see within a few years a good drop in our pet population... We would see less dogs with bad health or unstable mental health. It wouldn't go away all together of course but we would see a good dent in it... I think getting the government to close down the puppymills is a lot more...realistic than getting the schools to teach about dogs. I don't feel our government will supply for that.
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Post by Ioana on Feb 6, 2004 19:52:20 GMT -5
I know Brooke - it sounds like an utopia now but even if it won't happen during our lifespan I know it will happen one day. And yes you are right we need to start with something more doable like ceasing puppy mills from being. ps when I was talking about children going to those *animal centers* I meant them being ran by professionals who would teach children treat animals respectfully..( just as well as they should make Ethics compulsory in school - with more fun-like, interactive programs where they teach children about empathy)
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Post by Brooke on Feb 6, 2004 20:42:02 GMT -5
Ah I see. I've seen similar suggestions made at other forums so thats why I took off with it in that direction I guess.
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Post by Willow on Feb 7, 2004 14:03:04 GMT -5
Cathy, did you see this? Talking about *puppy mills*. They have been trying to nail this guy for a long time and nothing has been done. I still see his ads in the newspaper's up in our area. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Egress" <egress@dotnet.com> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:27:24 -0600 Please FORWARD and CROSS POST Let's ask the National Fox News Channel to "pick up" their WITI Fox 6 Milwaukee, Wisconsin affiliate's story "Puppies Left Out in the Cold" Let's see if we can get this story picked up and broadcast nationally on the Fox cable network. It certainly will help to "shine a light" on the inaction on the part of the Sheboygan, Wisconsin Sheriff's Department and District Attorney's office to arrest and convict Gerald Schulz of animal abuse and neglect! ***************************** Here's the e-mail address: newswatch@foxnews.com ***************************** Sample letter (please modify slightly so that the National Fox Network doesn't get the exact same e-mail from everyone...this is important!). Dear Fox Network, With severe winter weather and bitter cold conditions across the nation, please expose the brutal conditions suffered by dogs in "puppy mills". Many of these animals suffer through winter with little care and protection from the weather, improper food, frozen water and substandard care and conditions. Your Milwaukee affiliate, WITI Fox 6 has produced an investigative report on a puppy mill located in Sheboygan County, Wisconsin. For years, visitors to the "puppy farm" have complained to local authorities about the conditions animals suffer at the farm. Yet nothing is done to relieve suffering. Please "pick up" this story and broadcast it nationally. The story schedules to air in Milwaukee by WITI Fox 6 News Thursday, February 5, 2003 at 9:00 PM CST. Thank you, --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Egress" <egress@dotnet.com> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 22:05:33 -0600 The Fox 6 coverage on a notorious Wisconsin Puppy Mill was excellent (see notes below) View the story on line: Go to www.fox6milwaukee.com/Left Column click on -NEWS Click on -FOX 6 Investigates Scroll down - "Puppies Left Out in the Cold" (The only exception we took to this great piece of news journalism is that they claimed Gerald Schulz is not breaking any laws....we strongly believe he is in violation of current State Stat 951 "Crimes Against Animals") While you are on the Fox 6 page...PLEASE send them an e-mail the THANK them for covering this story. Ask that they do a follow and keep this issue in the public eye. It will only be by continuing and on-going demands to legislators and law enforcement the horrific treatment and suffering of these animals will END in Wisconsin. Eilene Ribbens Rohde President - AWARE Director - Wisconsin Puppy Mill Project
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Post by Willow on Feb 7, 2004 14:50:10 GMT -5
Here is the Fox 6 news report.
Puppies Left Out in the Cold (PLYMOUTH, WI -- February 5, 2004) It's seven degrees and the temperature is dropping. Six puppies huddle together for warmth in a wire cage. Their water bowls are filled with solid ice. They've been out in the cold all day and they will stay there all night -- day after day, until someone comes along to buy them.
Those are the conditions videotaped by FOX 6 undercover cameras during a recent visit to Pretty Penny Kennels in Sheboygan County. Dozens of puppies are raised in the outdoor cages -- even in subzero temperatures -- and the owner says he wouldn't have it any other way.
"I have better luck with them outside," says kennel owner Gerald Schulz. "Outside there's a lot less germs. I wouldn't want to live my life inside."
The conditions at Pretty Penny Kennels are unchanged since FOX 6 first investigated the kennel in 2001.
NO NEW LAW That investigation helped lawmakers pass a new state law that regulated pet breeders for the first time in state history. But before the law took effect, former Governor Scott McCallum vetoed the law's funding and current Governor Jim Doyle failed to restore the funding in the state's budget. The law would have taken effect this week.
Pet owners and rescue groups say without a law, puppies are suffering.
SICK PUPPY Betty Merrill bought a miniature dachshund at Pretty Penny Kennels on January 17, 2004. She says she bought the puppy to get it out of the freezing temperatures. "I didn't realize at the time just how sick she was," Betty told FOX 6. Merrill quickly took the puppy to an animal hospital and x-rays confirmed the puppy had pneumonia. If untreated, the condition would have been fatal, according to Merrill's veterinarian.
Gerald Schulz told FOX 6, "I sold it for less because I thought it had kennel cough." Schulz also says he will pay for the puppy's medical bills, although he has not yet contacted the Merrill family to discuss the issue.
Schulz says in cold temperatures he adds more bedding and more puppies to each cage to help keep the animals warm. He says he provides puppies fresh water four times daily because it freezes quickly. Schulz sells about 1,000 puppies a year and says he gets very few complaints from his customers.
The Sheboygan County Humane Society says it does get complaints about Pretty Penny Kennels, recording nearly 50 complaints in the past two years. The complaints are sent to the county sheriff's department.
"We get calls to go out there on a fairly frequent basis," says Captain David Adams. "There's nothing the sheriff's department can do under the current law."
NOT DEAD YET State lawmakers have reintroduced legislation that would regulate large breeders, dealers and shelters. The proposed law would also establish minimum standards for the humane treatment of the animals in their care. Assembly Bill 536 is nearly identical to the law that was repealed before it could take effect February 1, 2004.
Larry Balow (D - Eau Claire), one of the bill's co-sponsors, says pet owners should get involved if they want their lawmakers to support a new law.
"All I can say to people is you've got to put pressure on your legislators if this is important to you," Balow said. "If Wisconsin doesn't do something we will be the state with all the puppy mills in here because these breeders know they're not going to be inspected, they're not going to have to be licensed and nobody's going to bother them. We don't have to put up with this."
The legislation was "postponed" in the Assembly's Committee on Agriculture, and is it now being considered by the Legislature's Joint Finance Committee. To voice your opinion on the Pet Facilities Law (AB 536), you can contact the following legislative leaders and members of the Joint Finance Committee:
Senate Leadership Senate President Alan Lasee 608-266-3512 Senate Repub. Leader Mary Panzer 800-662-1227 Senate Dem. Leader Jon Erpenbach 888-549-0027
Assembly Leadership Assembly Speaker John Gard 608-266-2343 Assembly Repub. Leader Steven Foti 888-534-0038 Assembly Dem. Leader James Kreuser 888-534-0064
Joint Finance Committee Co-Chair Sen. Alberta Darling 800-863-1113 Co-chair Rep. Dean Kaufert 888-534-0055 Sen. Russell Decker 877-496-0472 Sen. Scott Fitzgerald 608-266-5660 Sen. Sheila Harsdorf 800-862-1092 Sen. Ted Kanavas 608-266-9174 Sen. Mary Lazich 800-334-1442 Sen. Gwendolynne Moore 888-326-6673 Sen. Robert Welch 800-991-5541 Rep. Michael Huebsch 888-534-0094 Rep. Shirley Krug 414-461-2223 Rep. Dan Meyer 888-534-0034 Rep. Kitty Rhoades 888-529-0030 Rep. Dan Schooff 888-534-0045 Rep. Jeff Stone 888-534-0082 Rep. David Ward 608-266-3790
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Post by Willow on Feb 7, 2004 14:58:01 GMT -5
Here is another em I just got from one of the volunteer's in the Lab Rescue on this guy Schultz. Cathy, you probably got it too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Please take the time to read this info. about the reality of puppy mills. We have a good number of them in Wisconsin with more cropping up every year. Probably the biggest puppymill is owned and operated by Gerald Schultz. He has ads in the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel every day. He breeds and sells 2000 pups yearly of the poorest specimens of just about every breed of puppy there is. He sells some of these pups directly and others are sold at pet stores such as the Barking Lot, Pet World, etc. Last winter, a local television station did a story on him and revealed the unbelievably inhumane conditions he keeps these dogs and puppies in. Dogs spend their entire lives walking on wire bottom cages which destroy their feet, and females are bred every time they come into season until they are too old to produce puppies anymore. They are literally puppy making machines. Then they are disposed of. The dogs and newborn puppies live in uninsulated, unheated wooden boxes even in winter. The television news story showed newborn pups huddled together in an empty wooden box shivering from head to toe, trying to keep warm while their mother did her best to warm them. Puppy mills and their petshop retailers are the number one perpetrators of pet overpopulation and the main reason 25 MILLION perfectly wonderful pets are euthanized every year just for lack of a home (backyard breeders being the # 2 reason for pet overpopulation). You can help by not buying puppies from petshops or backyard breeders!!! Also, please encourage anyone you know who wants to purchase a dog or puppy for a pet to visit their local animal shelter first, then breed rescues. Purebred, working dogs should be purchased from reputable breeders ONLY!! Good breeders and rescues can be located through breed clubs (internet) or dog training clubs in your local phonebook. Be a responsible pet owner and encourage everyone you know to do the same. Only patronize reputable breeders and help put these puppymills and backyard breeders out of business once and for all. It's the right thing to do.
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Post by Brooke on Feb 7, 2004 15:22:54 GMT -5
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Post by packerdogs on Feb 9, 2004 15:10:09 GMT -5
Yes, I got it, and I’m on the AWARE list. To be honest, most of those people really bother me, most are anti-hunting and anti-breeding anything. But anyways, Schultz is not the only one in our state. The Missouri puppymillers are starting to move up here because Wisconsin has no laws against puppymills. The reason he can get away with it (and why part of Nancy’s e-mail is untrue) is because he does not sell through pet stores. As a direct seller he does not need to be licensed by the USDA, he does not need to answer to anyone and only needs to provide adequate “food, water and shelter”. Which he does. The only way to stop him is new laws. The only way to stop getting more puppymills is to go to your town board meetings when someone applies for a kennel license, which most towns usually grant. Just a few months ago, a breeder in the western part of the state applied for a kennel license for 300 rotts!!! Well with all the calls the town board got they didn’t approve it, but it did get through the first couple of steps with no problems. Scary! The town I live in, I only need to pay $35/year for 12 or more dogs. So for $35 I could have 1000 dogs. Boy, I’d be rich.
The only way to try to get people to stop buying from Schultz is to put ads in ALL the papers he has ads in and tell people what they will be getting and why they shouldn’t go there.
As for Shelter Dogs, Nick watched it with me again on Sunday. At first, he seriously thought it was some kind of joke until I explained to him that Sue is regarded as an expert in dog aggression by many. When the thing with the cocker happened, that was it, he said she was by far the dumbest person on earth and shouldn’t be around animals of any sort. Before that we had always laughed at the stupid plastic arm on Animal Planet, thinking, why does a person need a plastic arm to see if a dog is aggressive? He of course also pointed out that we have saved many dogs and only had to put down a few, and never once did that temp test. One out of almost 300 dogs has bitten someone after he was adopted.
Cathy
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Post by Willow on Feb 9, 2004 20:25:52 GMT -5
Very interesting, and as usual, you have the facts straight. ;D I didn't get on the Aware list for that very reason....We have always been a hunting family, so will not associate with anything anti-hunting or anti-gun in anyway.
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Post by packerdogs on Feb 10, 2004 9:20:37 GMT -5
Well, you remember what most of the other rescuers are like, total bleeding hearts (no offense to anyone here!). They are up in arms about the morning doves, the buffalo, the wolves, the deer, etc. I would love to move all non-hunters out of this state for a year, and see what happens. Can you imagine how many deer there would be in just one year of not hunting? You’d barely be able to drive down a road! I just wish they’d stay focused on one issue – dogs!
On a side note, did you know Terri Tinsely died? She got in a car accident in December.
Cathy
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Post by Willow on Feb 10, 2004 16:45:31 GMT -5
I can't remember which state that happened in. People didn't want the deer killed and then got all upset because they were coming into their yards and eating all their shrubs, trees etc., and all over the roads!
Refresh my memory about Terri Tinsley. The name sounds so familar, but I can't place her. That's terrible! What happened?
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Post by packerdogs on Feb 10, 2004 16:47:32 GMT -5
Well, I know up in the provincial parks in Western Canada (I think it was Jasper), the town in the park has MAJOR deer problems, they’re all over the place. It was like you were driving through a big deer zoo, and that’s exactly how it would be here if we stopped deer hunting.
Terri was the owner of the WI dog rescue list we were kicked off, remember now?
Cathy
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