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Post by Am on Apr 19, 2005 1:36:47 GMT -5
One quick clicker question (please feel free to direct me to another thread if this one's already been answered!) I've been using the clicker to teach a couple of new tricks to my dog (lie down, wait, roll over). It's been working really well, but I do have one question about it. From my understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong), what you're doing with a clicker is forming a secondary reinforcer. In other words, since you can't always give a dog a toy or a treat the very instant he does something good, what you do is build up an association between the "click" noise and good things, and then use the clicker to mark "good" behaviour. The dog will then understand what it was that earned the reward, even if you can't give the reward to him instantly. My question is, does use of the clicker always need to be accompanied by something positive (toy, attention, treat, whatever)? Or when the dog gets used to "click" meaning "good", will hearing the "click" sound become enough reward by itself? If the "click" eventually becomes a positive reinforcer by itself, then each and every "click" wouldn't need to be followed by a treat, which would be a lot more convenient. But if you "click" without treating, wouldn't the association between "click" and "good!" start to wear out? Hope that question was clear enough for people to understand - I think I'm confusing myself with this one Rachel
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Post by amyjo on Apr 19, 2005 6:35:52 GMT -5
Once you have created the association - you can move to a random reinforcement schedule - which is a VERY powerful thing.
Think slot machines. Even though they don't pay out every time - people don't stop playing them.
Amy
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Post by Am on Apr 21, 2005 18:15:34 GMT -5
Hi Amyjo,
Thanks for the reply. Maybe I'm being a bit dense here, but by "variable reinforcement schedule" do you mean:
a) Still click him every time he obeys promptly, but don't always follow the click with a treat? or
b) Click good behaviour only sometimes, but still giving him a treat every single time I click?
Thanks,
Rachel
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Post by gunny on Apr 21, 2005 19:45:44 GMT -5
a random schedule is like this. you can remove the treat after the dog understands the click means good things. it should be like the dog is hard wired to act happy and joyous when they get a click. after a while you can remove the click. and start clicking randomly. this is the slot machine theory. you want to starve the dog of the click, so he or she is hungry for it. they will do anything to get it. it is much more affective than clicking everytime. I train dogs in schutzhund, we do not use clickers, we use treats and "bite toys" and games of tug of war. in place of the clicker. this is usally "hard wired" into them for the first year of life. I do not do any training until a year old. I only work on buliding that drive for the reward. Another effective thing to use while training in this kind of fashion is to stop at the hieght of the game. do not let the dog get bored. you want the dog to remeber the excitement from last time. this will also build intensity. the most intense point for a dog after starting something is about 5 mins. three for a puppy. those numbers are not exact. you'll have to monitor your dog to see when they love it the most. another effective thing i have found. is training immediatly upon coming home. when the dog is most happy to see you. they will relate that feeling to training after awhile.
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Post by Aussienot on Apr 22, 2005 18:58:47 GMT -5
That's the answer. Keep the connection between click and treat, but once he's learned what the command means stop clicking and treating every executuion. Click for every third sit, then every other sit, then one in five . . . the hard part is being really random, and not creating patterns. If he knows he gets clicked every third sit, and odd sits will gradually become slower and less sharp. If he really doesn't know when the next click will come, he keeps trying for a pay off by making every sit good.
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Post by Am on Apr 25, 2005 17:38:04 GMT -5
Aaah, thanks. I get it now!
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