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Post by amyjo on Apr 10, 2004 12:16:09 GMT -5
Yes... I get that - but If thier nutrition is suffering it is because they can't get ENOUGH fresh meat not because they aren't getting kibble and/ or supplements.
Also our dogs are protected from injury, parasites and just about any other thing you could imagine befalling a wild wolf or dog...that would shorten it's lifespan.
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Post by Brooke on Apr 10, 2004 14:00:35 GMT -5
true...
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Post by Aussienot on Apr 10, 2004 18:46:47 GMT -5
In the wild, there are all kinds of life-limiting variables that are not related to diet. In captivity, wolves and wild dogs often live 12 years or longer, which is comparable to the life span of a domesticated dog.
So while I take your point about the suppliments, I'm not sure I can isolate the factors to make a direct comparison. Plus, a wolf would have a hard time getting a credit card. And where would he put his wallet?
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Post by Brooke on Apr 10, 2004 18:59:37 GMT -5
another good point....
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Post by amyjo on Apr 10, 2004 21:22:58 GMT -5
Just trying to put that in persepctive - and of course a wolf can't get a CREDIT CARD - that's why they always pay in CASH!
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Post by Aussienot on Apr 10, 2004 22:33:23 GMT -5
Back to Nicole's concern, I mostly feed veggie mush because of my own needs, not the dogs. I know I'll want to give them omega oil 6 & 3, Vitamins C and E, and I also include an all purpose supplement called The Missing Link - which includes shark cartiledge, seafood and a range of plant nutrients which is supposed to help with skin problems. I accept that supplements probably are not necessary, but still hold the begining fears that I am now responsible for my dogs nutrition. I want to make sure I haven't missed anything.
In the evenings when I get home from work, I just want to plop food in the bowls and get it over with. I can't be bothered to stand there measuring. I find it much easier one a week to measure out a week's worth of suppliments and blend them up with some veg for a veggie mush. The veggie mush is also good filling for Kongs, and I make up 6 or 7 kongs over the course of a working week.
Plus, being a vegetarian I usually have left overs and by products of my own meals that I can just pop in the blender. But that's just me. So I feed suppliments for my peace of mind, and find veggie mush the easisest way to do it.
I was thinking about this, and I think one of the reasons it it so hard to find specifics about bones and weights is that every dog is different, and you don't know how your dog will react until you try it. Of my two, who are of similar size and both started raw at the same time, Sailor does great with chicken legs, and Finn gags and reguritates them.
So Finn get roughly the same weight in wings, and I only buy Sailor legs if they're really cheap.
But if I was following a menu that said they must have 1/4 lbs of chicken legs each day, I would have given up and said this diet doesn't work for Finn.
I think the flexibility and the ability to tailor the diet for each dog is one of the beauties of it. I would suggest not spinning yourself out over it. You don't have the make a lifetime commitment from the start. Try it for a month, see how you go. Your dogs are not going to starve, and if you find it too worrying you can always go back to the k-stuff when the month is over.
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Post by Brooke on Apr 10, 2004 23:03:36 GMT -5
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Post by Nicole on Apr 11, 2004 9:04:31 GMT -5
I know I'll want to give them omega oil 6 & 3, Vitamins C and E, and I also include an all purpose supplement called The Missing Link - which includes shark cartiledge, seafood and a range of plant nutrients which is supposed to help with skin problems. How did you determine how much is approriate to give. As to supplements, I am concerned on two levels. I am concerned that I would give more than is healthy and I am also concerned that the answer to this dilemma is to give none. In other words that they are saying that the dog should have it but since you don't know how, just skip it. Although I also accept that a balanced meal would be 100% nutritious. Many people who oppose this diet base their argument on the fact that the average pet owner doesn't know how to give a raw balanced diet. I feel like I am their poster child. But I am still going to try it and you are right, I can stop if it isn't working out for us.
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Post by amyjo on Apr 11, 2004 10:48:10 GMT -5
Okay part of my post is missing, BROOKE ... Anyway - what I said was basically that worrying and stressing over proper amounts/types of supplements is not necessary. My position on supps is that they aren't necessary, are complictated, time consuming, easy to f' up and expensive. I would rather spend my time/money on finding and buying a raw variety. I don't think it's wrong to supp - It's just not right for me.... and I hate to see confusion over supps scare away new raw feeders.. It is always an issue that can be explored and tweaked once a rawfeeder has experience and confidence. Bottom line.... with or with out supps a varied raw diet of meat, organ and some bone is so far superior to any kibble that it really is a non issue. We have to remember that dogs don't need 100% balanced nutrition every day ( that is marketing hooey from the pet food industry) - they need BALANCE OVER TIME...They key phrase "over time" means you have alot of wiggle room to figure out what is best for you and your beloved critter.
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Post by Brooke on Apr 11, 2004 22:18:35 GMT -5
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Post by Aussienot on Apr 12, 2004 0:53:52 GMT -5
All of the supplements I use are canine formulated, so I just followed the amounts suggested on the packages for their weights. The only one which can build up is the E, so I double checked my diet plan with the local vet.
I agree a lot with Amyjo's points. I am probably just giving my dogs expensive pee and unnecessarily complicating things. If I just had Sailor, who has a robust constitution and is an easy keeper, I'd probably skip them entirely, and feed more fish to keep up the omega oils.
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