|
Post by Brooke on Apr 6, 2004 1:31:12 GMT -5
Lets say someone lives in an area with lots of land...or even a good little chunk. Should a dog be able to roam freely on the land that it lives on unsupervised?
|
|
|
Post by packerdogs on Apr 6, 2004 8:01:54 GMT -5
Yep, but only IF the dog is boundary trained. All of my dogs, except my beagle, are out loose when we are home. One of my dogs is out loose when we are not home because he’ll either jump out a window if we leave him in the house or he’ll jump the 6’ fenced in area. Mine will not go to the road. Just last night someone was riding a bike up my road, which rarely happens, and all the dogs start barking and running towards them and all of them stopped at the top of the ditch. They did the same thing when someone was riding horses down the road. Their real test is when someone road a 4-wheeler down the road, they love 4-wheelers, but they didn’t go in the road! We also use to have this moron that would park at the end of our road and walk her beagle up and down it. Not sure what was wrong with her road! But again, no one ran out, they’d all just bark their fool heads off and run to the ditch. They also do not leave our property. The neighbor south of us owns hunting land and says he’s never seen a dog foot print on his side of the property line.
I should also add only IF the dogs are not aggressive. A couple of weeks ago, a neighbor was a few miles away and got a flat tire. All five dogs in the property she parked in front of (and she was on the road, not their driveway) came running out to her and one of them bit her on the hand bad enough to require stitches.
And one more thing, breed certainly should be taken into consideration. Most hunting breeds and herding breeds are made to work off leash, so should also be expected to be good off leash. On the other hand, hounds are made to just put their nose to the ground and keep on running! We have my beagle pretty well trained off leash, but only if we are outside, or if there are no other dogs outside. If we let him out and the other dogs are out, he hightails it to the wetlands to hunt rabbits.
That’s my 2 cents.
|
|
|
Post by sibemom on Apr 6, 2004 16:52:05 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Aussienot on Apr 7, 2004 1:14:34 GMT -5
Anytime 'Dog' and 'Unsupervised' appear in the same sentence I get nervous. Put that dog on a bit of land and I'm still hearing warning bells.
I can envision any number of problems.
The dog would be free to: kill wildlife, engage in unwanted digging, destroy irrigation systems or plant beds.
The dog could be subjected to attack by other free roaming dogs who do not respect boundaries, possibly open to poisoning or gunshots or dog theft.
And if we don't include the well-boundary trained dogs, and consider the only the more typical pet dogs, then I see all kinds of cat chasing, livestock killing, neighborhood maurading, bike chasing and general bad dog behavior going on.
Call me a coward but, no, I wouldn't do it with the average pet dog. In fact, I do have a bit of fenced land, and neither of my dogs roam free. That's only my choice. I'm not really into projecting 'should' and 'should not' onto other people.
I suppose that if you are in a remote location, and your dogs are well manered and boundary trained, then you evaluate the odds of them facing risks and make your choices accordingly.
And to echo what Packerdog said about breed and purpose, if it's a working stock dog or a stock protection dog, then it's an entirely different situation.
|
|
|
Post by packerdogs on Apr 7, 2004 9:14:46 GMT -5
I hear the running deer thing all the time too. Deer aren’t stupid. When we first moved in, there were deer at the apple tree in our front yard all the time. Haven’t seen one there in 4 years. Also, most dogs are not near fast enough to catch a deer. And as Ann said, when we’re in the back part of the property we’re with the deer. Sure, they scare up some deer, and chase them for a minute, then give up and come back to us. Also, during deer hunting season, the dogs are in the house at all times, except to go out and do their duty and that is it. I swear my dogs gain 10 lbs each during deer hunting. They are not happy campers.
As for other wildlife, yep, my dogs do kill them. We had a whole family of nasty possums living in the barn when we moved in, they’re all dead now. We also had rats in one of the other out buildings, but they’re all dead too. So, I’m very happy my dogs are killers so there are no more possums and rats living on our property. Just this morning, Luke caught a barn pigeon for breakfast. And they kill any rabbits, mice and pheasants. Only the weim mix can catch a pheasant, and we have a pheasant farm down the road, so pheasants are everywhere by us.
And as for digging and destroying stuff, sure they’ve all tried, once, but like anything they do, you have to catch them in the act and lay down the law! I don’t think anyone would try to steal them, they bark like crazy fools whenever they see a person, my border collie is very standoffish with new people, and my lab/dane mix looks extremely mean when he barks, even though he’s not. Poisoning could happen to any dog anywhere, doesn’t matter if your dog only goes for walks or has a fenced in yard, if someone wants to poison them, they will. As for shooting, it is a felony to use a firearm in an unlawful way, and killing a dog that is not your own is a felony unless they are chasing deer during hunting season or harrassing livestock.
Honestly, if you came over you’d be surprised what the dogs do when they’re outside alone. 3 of them just lay in the front yard or wrestle right there. The other 2 are either in the front yard or behind the barn, or in the barn. They never go to the back unless we’re with them. I also think a lot if it has to do with the amount of training that went into the alpha dog, they follow him everywhere.
I wouldn’t want to live any other way! That’s why I choose the dogs I do, I’d never get a Sibe or a dog that did need a fenced in yard. Sure, it would be great to have enough money to put a 6’ fence around the whole property and gate in the driveway, not to keep the dogs in, but to keep others out!
Cathy
|
|
|
Post by Willow on Apr 7, 2004 10:07:22 GMT -5
Again, this is one of those questions where I feel strongly for both sides! ;D
It's nice to be able to let your dog out unsupervised on your own property, but from experience, and even with now having the underground fencing and my dogs being trained to stay inside of it, so many things can and do happen.
I feel dogs left unsupervised will eventually, at some time, leave the property...trained or not. This is especialy true at night and I don't think dogs should ever be running around loose at night. That is when they are more likely to roam, run deer, and form packs with other roaming dogs, which can be very dangerous.
Many years ago, my best dog, who stuck to me like glue, was let out unsupervised to go potty one night because I was sick with the flu. He always stayed in our unfenced yard and wouldn't even leave if another loose dog came by. At least, not until this one night when a neighborhood roaming Huskie (those darn Huskies!!! Sorry Ann, and I'm just kidding!!) ;D came by and Baron followed him. Shortly afterwards I got a call from the local Animal Shelter that Baron had been hit by a car and killed!!! The dogs ran across a road in front of a car, the Huskie made it, but Baron did not.
It's not easy living with yourself knowing that it was totally your fault and no one else's that this happened, and it's a very harsh lesson to learn....don't ever leave your dog outside unsupervised.
|
|
|
Post by Nicole on Apr 7, 2004 15:43:11 GMT -5
I would lean in favor of the opposition. Personally, I don't have the nerves to let my dog roam on unfenced property unsupervised. I don't believe in the word "never" when it comes to dogs acting on their own. This may be because I don't live in a rural area and the thought of doing this in my suburban community would be unthinkable. Another concern would be if a person or child wandered onto the property by accident.
|
|
|
Post by sibemom on Apr 7, 2004 16:38:02 GMT -5
There are pro's and con's to both sides. I never left my dogs out at night and like with Cathy's all they really ever did was lay around out in the pasture with the horses or by the back step. I did have some that I would have never left loose because of their protective nature and their need for RUNNING Blade is happy just to be outside either in the kennel or tethered he just likes the outdoors. That dog will never run loose except in an enclosure.
|
|
|
Post by Rowan on Oct 1, 2004 4:30:30 GMT -5
I enjoy our new 70acs moving out of a busy town has been the best for us and the dogs. Unfortunetly it has come with it's own set back as well. A different mentality of dog people. ""We moved out to the country so our animals could be free""" it drives me nuts that people can't control/contain their dogs and feel they don't need too... My dogs are city dogs I still have kennels set up for them in a barn that can be secured for their protection, we had a free play area built off the back of the barn with individual outdoor kennels also connected to it so when I could not supervise directly they still could be free running around. The last two years I expanded the fence for two more free play areas all in locations for calming distance for activities they were not use to. When I am out with them they roam free with me learning boundries beyond the free play areas, learning that cows are not for chasing lol. They do not know live stock, and especially never experienced horses, so they are back from the road where some one might ride by. Built our place up to where people and services can come and go do what they need, come to the front door and never be worried about the dogs being loose in what I call the people only area of the front property. Every dog is secured when we leave either in a kennel or in the house. I have video cameras in stalled to tape while we are gone. People wanting to come see the dogs and have no respect just walk on the property to do so when they want to without asking cause it is a free country and it is their right. Well until I installed the video cameras and sensors to catch them at it. Have worked with cow learning do's and don'ts, All the dogs have met the service people while they have been here doing their job. We have great service people and the dogs accept that they are ok to be there. The dogs have learn alot in our 4 years, and have adjust well to the different things with grace and acceptance. Many of the neighbors dogs are dead killed by the cattle people who have asked them many times to contain the ones chaseing and taking down the cows in the area, it's open range here. On a few occassion I have found a couple of my own running around the yard instead of being secured where I left them but they never left the property or bothered anyone who happened to pass by. I will always feel better keeping them behind a fence where they have nice areas to roam and play when I can not watch them and kenneling them when I am gone even if they have learned the boundries. Still loose dogs in the area, and people well you just never know about people driving out in these areas who don't belong there in the first place. Have a couple of neighbors who have no fence, and their dogs are out all the time that never roam off the property. So I know it is possible and successful. I have 13 and guess my worse fear of leaving a group loose uncontained, unsupervised is roaming gaining territory, getting a pack mentality and really learning some bad habits it is what my neighbors 6 gsd's did over a period of time roam all day while everyone is at work come home when they came home then back out roaming. It's 3 miles to my house and they use to come here in the night, It was awful not knowing if they were here or not in the dark until we got the rest of the fencing up. They are gone now the cattle people killed them two summers ago for chasing cows and killing calves they got quiet bad at it. Wanted to spit in the owners face when he tried to get my sympathy for his dogs being killed. He is on the no GSD puppy list to many of the breeders.
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Oct 1, 2004 6:41:03 GMT -5
Holy Cow....what a story...I would of never imagined living in the country would have that kind of headaches associated with it....
And then to top it off, having a neighbor who lets his 6 GSD's run free during the day and then nightly to reak havoc on the cattle of the area and then get all upset cuz someone shot his dogs for what they were doing....oh pulllllleeze....I know who shoulda been shot (or more just belted in the head for being a jerk)....
Sadly, it appears the stupid dog owner gene is out in the country as well...
I could imagine my dream country home being lit up like Fort Knox at night (or at least a lit compound where the kennel(s) would be).
-Richard
|
|
|
Post by Iluvmypup on Oct 1, 2004 11:29:00 GMT -5
Couldn't have said it better then Aussienot did.
I don't think I would ever let my dogs have 'free roam' around. There are many things to consider. I had a friend who lived on a 100 acre farm and she let her dogs loose without any supervision. Well, when another farm a little ways away put out rat poison, guess who found it? Apparently the dogs, as they became very sick.
Plus, I've seen 'free roaming' dogs get the habit of chasing cars, killing wild animals (remember...rats could have eaten poison, which is then transferred to the dog) which could end up with them getting rabies or other serious disease, they could get hurt somewhere and who knows where they are, they could become destructive on other people's property, could get in attacks with other 'free roaming' dogs.....I could keep going.
Of course I'm sure there are some cases where everything turns out just great, but for me, the risk outway the benefit of having a dog who can roam to his heart's content. They get plenty of off-leash roaming time WITHIN my eye view when we go out for walks. Maybe I'm just an over-protective mom, but I'd rather be 'safe then sorry'. ;D
|
|
|
Post by ripley on Oct 2, 2004 5:26:08 GMT -5
Shiner was the only dog we allowed to roam the land. She was magnificently 'boundary-trained' and would patrol the land, kill the gophers and various things that the cats didn't take care of, and run off the cruel neighbor kids who killed one of my favorite kittens with their BB gun. She was basically our ranch hand. She never ran away, and had a knack for finishing fights, so none of us worried about her very much. We should have, in my opinion, because we put her in some very unsafe situations (like chasing away the neighbor kids and their BB guns). If I had the chance to let my dogs roam free now, I wouldn't do it. Even in the yard, fenced in by a brick wall, in Arizona, I wouldn't let my dogs out unattended, for a few reasons: 1.) There are rattlesnakes, scorpions and poisonous toads in Arizona that can harm a dog Dakota's size and kill Ripley within minutes. There are cactus out there that the dog can injure himself on if someone isn't there to stop him. 2.) If the dog were ever to find a way to get out of the yard, he would be dead or gone forever. If he wasn't killed by a coyote, hit by a car, or killed by birds of prey, he could be bitten by a snake, driven into a cactus, or stolen by the oh-so-common people in Arizona who like to steal tiny breed dogs out of their yards. 3.) If the above two aren't excuse enough, it's too hot out there to just leave them out. So yeah, I'm a big sissy when it comes to what I expose my dogs to, but I just want them to be safe. I don't see why it wouldn't be a bad thing to let a territorial, boundary-trained dog outside for a while. I'm leery of leaving any dog unattended now, but I suppose that some dogs could do OK with it.
|
|
|
Post by Willow on Oct 2, 2004 8:37:53 GMT -5
Rowan, you are a very responsible dog owner and one I would love to have as a neighbor! ;D
Like you, I have secure kennels for my dogs and my yard has underground fencing to make sure the dogs do not roam outside and get into trouble. They are allowed free access to the yard when we are home.
Recently a lot of people in the neighborhood have had things stolen out of their garages, sheds etc., and I was surprised to hear this and said that we haven't been botherd. The person telling me said, "That's because they don't know if your dogs are out in the yard or not". My dogs are friendly, but do bark at strangers, which I like. They keep the "riff raff" out of our yard. ;D Before we put in the underground fence, we had people cutting across our property all the time. Even cutting across our front yard on their sno mobiles!!! No one around here has respect for private property either.
|
|
|
Post by beardiegirl on Sept 9, 2006 3:34:10 GMT -5
Really old thread, but I wanted to pput my two cents in . We have a fair bit of fenced in garden, but the dogs couldn't either open the gate (which is coded) or jump the fence. When we are out for a short amount of time (supermarket, dinner, etc) , Finn and Abbie are allowed outside in the garden, as they "protect" the house, and do ward intruders away. When they see a dog or person that they like or know well, they bark happily/submissively, wagging their tails and hips and whimper-yipping. If a person they don't know walks by, they bark loudly, though, if somebody found their way in, Finn would "wolf-grin" and wag his hips too. So, my dogs wouldn't hurt a fly, that isn't the problem for me. I agree with letting a dog run free if they are boundary trained, and no busy roads wind along the property, as a dog *is* an animal, not a person, and they need their "alone time" too. there we are. hope this opens up again! --HAILS
|
|
|
Post by willow on Sept 9, 2006 9:00:26 GMT -5
To me, free roaming, being boundary trained, or relying on underground fence to keep your dog contained on his/her own property is different than being behind a secure enclosure.
My dogs are boundary trained to an underground fence and I do let them outside alone during the day when we are home, but when we are gone, and at night, they are in their outdoor kennel and in the house, respectively.
|
|