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Post by sibemom on Apr 13, 2004 5:58:30 GMT -5
I got an e-mail from Loey and she told me that Pup was not well. She contacted Magda our homeopath and was told he is suffeing from pancreatitis. He had yellow stole and was rather lathargic. Magda told her to cut back on the chicken that she feeds and give him 500mg of salmon oil and then work up to 1000mg. Chicken is high in Omega's excet for Omega 3 so to balance it she gives the salmon oil. She was also told not to continue Cod Liver Oil at this time. I have not had these problems with Blade and his main protein source is chicken and pork with some ground beef and turkey. She wanted me to post this so that you guys new what to watch for. I think I am going to give Ed's diet plan another look and maybe try to follow that more closely except for the supplements. I was giving salmon oil but then stopped because of the dangers of metals in the oil. She is really busy but will be back soon. Like I said I have not had any problems with Blade and feeding chicken so maybe some dogs just dont tolerate chicken as well. I was told by the vet to watch him with the pork though.
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Post by Willow on Apr 13, 2004 8:56:30 GMT -5
As Ann said, I wanted to alert everyone about the chicken, because most start out by giving JUST chicken for a couple of weeks and then adding other meats. I didn't do this with my dogs. I started with a variety right from the beginning and didn't have a problem, but I was already giving them Raw Beef bones for quite awhile with the kibble.
Lately, because of a problem with finding reasonable ground turkey, pork hocks and meaty pork neck bones, I have been feeding more chicken than usual. I am feeding Salmon and Mackeral, but only once or twice a week.
Anyway, there is no need for *panic* or to ditch the raw. It is still by far the best way to go, as long as you are feeding a variety of meats and balancing it out with Salmon, Mackeral or Salmon Oil if not feeding much fish.
BTW, Magda told me removing the skin and fat from the chicken doesn't make any difference, because the chicken itself has a lot of Omega 6's and 9's in it.
Pup is fine now, after just not eating much for a few meals and being lethargic for a couple of days, (and the yellow poop!) which alerted me to Pancreas or liver. He did not vomit or have diarrhea as some dogs do with pancreatitis.
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Post by Willow on Apr 13, 2004 9:00:02 GMT -5
Ann, doesn't Ed give a lot of veg's and supplements in his diet?
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Post by sibemom on Apr 13, 2004 9:36:20 GMT -5
Yes he does but I wouldnt. I just want to look at his proportions of ground/rawbone because even though I was told on the raw feeding list that ground is not good I dissagree. I think to really balance the diet you HAVE to give some ground. Blades fecal sample showed a fiberous matter and the vet said to back off on the bone, and feed more meat. So that is why I was going to check out his portions again. I am going to finish up the grizzly salmon oil and then get some from the place you are getting yours. I think with him because he is use to it, I can start right away with the 1000mg. I sent Magda a note to be sure. I guess I am lucky because with the siberian they thrive on almost anything, and have pretty healthy constitutions, you just have to make sure they get the right amount of zinc to keep their skin healthy. His portions are so small compared to alot of dogs his size. I only feed 1 chicken leg quarter, and 3 times a week add an aditional protein like sardines, tuna, salmon, ground turkey, pigs feet, pork hocks or grnd. pork and beef. I gave up on the veggies because he just has no desire to eat them. I do use some very healthy table scraps to but of course no cooked bones.
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Post by Nicole on Apr 13, 2004 10:05:25 GMT -5
Oh, I am so sorry that happened to pup. I am so happy that he is fine now.
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Post by Nicole on Apr 13, 2004 10:08:24 GMT -5
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Post by amyjo on Apr 13, 2004 10:16:45 GMT -5
I too feed ground (usually turkey) even though they say not to on the raw feeding list - the primary objection to it seems to be the dog eats it too fast and then they don't get any exercise from it - nor do the digestive enzyems get a chance to get worked up which can lead to bacterial issues in the digestive tract. I get around this by feeding the ground meat frozen. Sometimes I will even form it into a big ball b4 freezing and I find that really works well on those caninie teeth that tend to get a little funky. I like to feed it because can get it for a reasonable price and it provides a good "filler" and allows me to afford pork ribs, lamb shanks, beef heart and stuff like that each week.
Now correct me if I am wrong - but I looked into pancreatitis when I was first researching raw feeding and the issue seems to be that an already compromised pancreas can be "inflamed" by a high fat diet - not so much that a high fat diet causes pancreatitis....Could Pup's age, past health issues etc have played a role in this?
In a healthy dog - eating chicken for a week or two should really be no big deal. I too have been feeding alot of chicken these last couple weeks cause it was dirt cheap! I will certainly be on the lookout for any issues with my Elvis who is also of "senior" status and has a history of health issues. Thanks for the heads up!
Amy
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Post by sibemom on Apr 13, 2004 10:33:29 GMT -5
I beleive you are right on with that thought Amy. Thus the reason for the supplimentation of Salmon Oil. It doesent make alot of sense to give more fat to a dog that is having issues with it already EXCEPT certain fatty acids are very benefitial and some are not. Omega 3 is one of the best for any living creature, along with a ballance of the others. I know with humans that take calcium supplements in order for your body to use the calcium effecently you must also add magnisium. Same thing with dogs to get their bodies to use the nutrients in the food you are feeding you must also add certain items to assist this. They talk alot about digestive enzymes on the raw list and on TAV. I dont agree with any of that I think if you keep your feeding plan simple but with variety of proteins you are going to do just fine. I mean wolves do not take papaya extract to help them digest thier food so I dont thing we should have to either. I think by adding the salmon oil now it will help to balance the fatty acids which they need. As far as the ground meat goes feeding it frozen is a great idea I will have to try that. Nicki don't get scared things like this happen no matter what you feed. At least with the raw they do not happen as often
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Post by amyjo on Apr 13, 2004 10:33:31 GMT -5
And I should have said FIRST - I too am really happy Pup is okay. I was THINKING it, but too busy typing like a demon to try to get my post up before Nicki freaked out Too late
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Post by sibemom on Apr 13, 2004 10:40:06 GMT -5
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Post by amyjo on Apr 13, 2004 10:49:39 GMT -5
Ann- the digestive enzyemes I was referring to in my post are the dogs own naturally occurring enzyemes that get "revved up" for lack of a better term when the dog has a good long chew.
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Post by sibemom on Apr 13, 2004 11:21:29 GMT -5
That I knew Amy What I was talking about was all the hype about giving them additives to help them digest certain raw meats. They talk alot about it on the raw feeding site which I don't go to anymore and a little on TAV which I don't go to much anymore either. They mostly talk about giving them when you feed pork. Blade is fine with pork and that is suppose to be the hardest for them to handle and the one that causes pancreatitis more so than chicken.
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Post by amyjo on Apr 13, 2004 11:40:39 GMT -5
Gottcha - sometimes I don't make sense even to myself.... Just makin' sure!
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Post by Nicole on Apr 13, 2004 20:39:57 GMT -5
was THINKING it, but too busy typing like a demon to try to get my post up before Nicki freaked out Too late I am a bit freaked but definately not a lost cause. ;D ;D This is just a minor set back for my willingness but I will come back around. I know that for sure. I will let you know as soon as I am ready again. But I have postponed for now my April 19th start date.
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Post by packerdogs on Apr 14, 2004 8:32:17 GMT -5
Well, you’re braver than me Nicki! I doubt I’ll ever make the switch. None of my dogs have allergies or health problems. They’re coats are healthy, their eyes never have gunk in them, and they always have normal stools. Plus, I HATE going to the grocery store. Two of them get a pretty healthy dose of raw rabbits and barn pigeons several times a week, so they’re partially on the raw diet!
cathy
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