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Post by Laura on Mar 24, 2004 0:34:10 GMT -5
This is a new one for me, and I'm hoping someone here has more experience with pregnancy and loss than I do . I just picked up our newest Sibe tonight, she was pulled from a shelter in So. Carolina, was pregnant when brought in, was put into a run with ten other dogs and not segregated, gave birth to 8 pups, all of them killed by the other dogs . She is very sweet, passed my temp test, all around a very nice dog, and young to boot. Problem is, she has this awful haunted look, and will not drop the plush toy she carries around all day as a baby replacement. How long do I wait to try and take the "baby"? And should I attempt to put her with the litter of pups we just got with her? Any and all suggestions please!
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Post by sibemom on Mar 24, 2004 6:31:55 GMT -5
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Post by Nicole on Mar 24, 2004 9:09:12 GMT -5
When I read this story in the shout box, I was so heartbroken. It really upset me. I can't even imagine the horror that this dog experienced watching other dogs kill her babies. Bless you Laura for caring for her. I don't have any advice but I just wanted to say that I think you are an I would love to know how she does with the puppies if you decide to try that.
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Post by amyjo on Mar 24, 2004 11:40:07 GMT -5
This is awful - my heart is broken for that poor girl! I know this happens in the wild and it is for the survival of the pack - but I am sure that doesn't make in any less difficult on the mama... I can't believe a shelter would be so ignorant of dog behavior to house her with all those other dogs. So awful.
Your description of her look and her her behavior just crack my heart right in two. What is her name so I know who to send my love and good thoughts to?
I have absolutely NO expereince with this but, I would let her carry that stuffed animal the rest of her life if she wanted to... I do think putting her with the pups is worth a try - especially if she seems really interested to be with them...I too would be interested to hear the results.
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Post by packerdogs on Mar 24, 2004 11:54:34 GMT -5
Oh boy, that is so sad! I would try your hardest to take in a couple of young puppies. Maybe another rescue would let you borrow some for awhile? I would think with other pups around, she’d get over it much, much quicker. Maybe even get sick of the pups biting on her and trying to nurse her ! Did the shelter even know she was pregnant. Some shelter workers are idiots – we took in a dog from MN, the transporter called in a panic because the dog was in labor! The shelter didn’t even know she was pregnant. How could they not know??? The dog had her pups within a week or so after that. Cathy
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Post by Willow on Mar 24, 2004 12:03:08 GMT -5
Laura, I agree with the other's. Let her have her *baby* and I would also try her with the pups. Poor, poor thing, and I too say it is such a blessing that you finally got her. I'm sure her hormone's are all messed up too, since she gave birth and then didn't have a chance to care for them.
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Post by Brooke on Mar 24, 2004 13:19:37 GMT -5
Yeah...I'm kind of thinkin the same thing. It may be good for her to be around other puppies for awhile. GOSH that is just soo sad I just can't believe people are that stupid.
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Post by Brooke on Mar 24, 2004 13:22:58 GMT -5
I have a question though...I'm not sure about this or not. Were the dogs that hungry or will dogs do that just as instinct? That kind of worries me...are they getting enough food or is that just normal and the shelter was stupid anyway?
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Post by Nicole on Mar 24, 2004 14:00:41 GMT -5
Brooke, it is actually instinct. In the wild when a male wolf, lion, tiger etc takes over a pack, pride etc, with or without other males, the first thing they do is kill all the young. The females will usually attempt to leave the pack or pride with their young, but they aren't often successful in protecting them. This is done so the females will go into heat quicker (if they are nursing, they won't go into season for many months with the babies alive), and the Alpha or top lion can procreate his own genes and also not be challenged by the male babies when they grow up. Also, if an adult who is an outsider finds a young wandering without its mom, they will eat it as well. I think in that instance it is for food. I am not certain if this is the same with domesticated dogs. Based on what happened though, it would seem to be.
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Post by Willow on Mar 24, 2004 15:42:55 GMT -5
I really have no idea, but I do know dogs, in general, are totally stressed out in any shelter situation and it may have been that under stress and being so many dogs together, the "pack mentality" took over. Just my thoughts.
I know male lions kill the young, and some male house cats will too, but I don't think male wolves do, do they? I always thought the wolf pack helped in the rearing of the pups. Dogs being so closely related to wolves you wouldn't think they would do that, but under the conditions these dogs were in, anything is possible.
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Post by Nicole on Mar 24, 2004 15:54:35 GMT -5
I know male lions kill the young, and some male house cats will too, but I don't think male wolves do, do they? I always thought the wolf pack helped in the rearing of the pups. Dogs being so closely related to wolves you wouldn't think they would do that, but under the conditions these dogs were in, anything is possible. I think only when there is an over throw of the pack and over throw of Alpha. Because only Alpha procreates. Other packmembers wouldn't kill Alpha babies though. Even in lion prides, the other pride members won't kill the babies. Only if outsiders come in and take over.
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Post by Willow on Mar 24, 2004 16:07:43 GMT -5
Oh, that's right...I remember that now. So then, with this female being put into that pen with all the other dogs, it was in effect, like another pack coming in and taking over, or because she wasn't part of that pack, that's maybe why they killed her puppies.
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Post by Nicole on Mar 24, 2004 16:34:05 GMT -5
That is what I was thinking. I saw a documentary on this (the only reason I know this stuff ;D) and there is one other thing I now recall. When the female has her babies she stays in seclusion until the eyes are open and they are walking and then she safely introduces them to the pack very protectively. I wonder if this is because if she didn't do this they would be killed. In other words, the brand new baby isn't safe anytime which is what these dogs were confronted with in the shelter.
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Post by amyjo on Mar 24, 2004 16:42:13 GMT -5
I also understand that in wolf packs if there is a litter born that is not from the alpha pair - the pups are killed because a pack can only support one litter at a time and it should be the alpha pair litter - has to do with natural selection and survival of the fittest...still sucks this happened though.
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Post by Richard on Mar 24, 2004 16:48:59 GMT -5
Ah, personally, I'd just like to get my hands on the knuckhead who put her in the pen with the other dogs.....
And then I'd love to find the "so called" owner of that poor girl who let her get pregnant and then just let her get away and have a few words with them...
My goodness, if it wasn't for people like you Laura, I think this world would be even darker than it can be somedays. You will be not forgotten for your efforts...
As for the poor sibe who lost her pups, I agree, let her have the baby doll for now...I know we have talked about dogs not having human emotions in some other thread, but to me, the thought of losing them like that is just heart wrenching...and for this dog, I think she probably feels something is missing and is just wandering around looking (I'm just so p.o'd about reading this again...I simply cannot beleive crap like this happens...). It must be simply a sad scene watching her carrying around that doll....do your best with her Laura..she deserves that much.
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