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Post by Willow on Aug 10, 2004 8:41:21 GMT -5
I think I have mentioned my sister's Min Pin. She got him as a puppy, and he's now less than a yr. old.
Right from the start he's been unpredictable. Until you have been around him several times, one time he's fine and friendly. The next time he acts like he doesn't know you and is afraid of you and will come up behind and bite your heels if he is not on leash. Of course, if someone tries to pet him, he will also growl/nip. He also does not like children, even though no child has been rough with him. Once he gets to know you he is fine.
It is not a matter of socialization. They take him everywhere with them and they have a lot of people come to the house.
I have told her they need to really get on him when he acts aggressive towards people, but all they do is say, "Max, no". When I am there I body block him when he goes for someone's heels, (step between him and the person) and really let him know what he is doing is unacceptable.
My sister asked me about a muzzle and if they should put one on him and then just let him run around off leash around people?
I really don't know.
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Post by sibemom on Aug 10, 2004 9:17:08 GMT -5
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Post by amyjo on Aug 10, 2004 9:53:38 GMT -5
Well...Ann is right about the muzzle - it's a tool - not a solution.
I also think that taking the dog everywhere is part of the problem...because the dog hasn't been properly trained to behave "everywhere"
So he gets scared and does his little biting routine (which is self rewarding) and reinforces his own bad behavior everywhere they go.
The body block is the right thing and so is "letting him know it isn't acceptable" whether that be a verbal correction or a physical one(obviously appropriate to size, temperment and situation) if necessary.... but I think the thing that is really missing here is teaching the dog that people are basically okay - For a dog like this - I would crate/gate the dog when guests are over where he can see and smell them but not interact. Once they have been in the house for a while I would release the dog and ask my guests to ignore him completley. Then I would have them randomly drop treats without looking at or interacting with the dog.
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Post by sibemom on Aug 10, 2004 10:22:45 GMT -5
I agree with you Amy, he has not earned the right to go everywhere yet, and I think a crate would help this situation alot. Min Pin's are funny little dogs but usually predictable when trained and very smart. He's young so I think if they get on this right away they could change his attitude
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Post by Richard on Aug 10, 2004 14:29:39 GMT -5
Sounds like he needs to spend a couple weeks with Auntie Loey No, this situation calls for a few weeks at Camp Loey....no niceties here...he needs some NILIF and some hard core understanding of what is acceptable and not acceptable behaviour around the house.... And you ladies are right, the muzzle is just a convienient tool...useless if there is no OB to go with it... -Richard
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Post by fireworksinjuly on Aug 10, 2004 14:38:31 GMT -5
Min Pins deff need consistant training. I agree with everyone here it needs training, the muzzle may assist in the training but it is NOT a solution. Min Pins are strange creatures, I have two, Min Pins like to be in control, the first thing to do it to make sure they know why is in controle. YOU...ive never actually done the NILF stuff, but If I ever get another Min Pin that will be the FIRST thing I start on. It seems like the perfect plan for a stubborn "king of toys" Min Pins. Min Pins need to know whos boss or else they will just keep acting up. Obediance and NILF need to be done with that dog. Min Pins have sharp teeth and if they feel the urge to really use them even with their small little mouths they hurt like a You cant keep a muzzle on 24/7- they especially like to be agressive when food is around, training must be done.
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Post by Willow on Aug 10, 2004 17:46:42 GMT -5
Yep. I agree with what everyone has said, but my sis and husband just aren't going to do it. They didn't dicipline their children when they were home either! I have told them over and over to TRAIN the little BRAT...(Not in those words, of course), and have told them how to do it, but he just runs wild. I agree with Ann that it is a lost cause, but only because they refuse to do anything about it.
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Post by ripley on Aug 10, 2004 18:34:57 GMT -5
Willow, I'm in the SAME deal with my friends and their chihuahuas! They let their female yip, yap, growl and 'ankle bite' when a stranger shows up. She adores me, and I've tried to work with her, but it's her OWNERS who won't train her! (Ever hear the "Oh, she's small. She doesn't need training!" routine that some owners give for their biting dogs?) Maybe we can share which method works best on training the owners, after it's all resolved. Personally, I would put a collar & leash on that "little brat" and correct the snot out of him if he so much as TRIED to show aggression. That's probably just because unprovoked aggression is NOT allowed at my house....
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Post by Willow on Aug 10, 2004 18:42:49 GMT -5
Personally, I would put a collar & leash on that "little brat" and correct the snot out of him if he so much as TRIED to show aggression. That's probably just because unprovoked aggression is NOT allowed at my house.... That's the way most of us here feel and That's what I have suggested, but they are of a mindset that it's just "in him", it's not their fault, and there isn't anything they can do about it. How can you work with that?
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Post by ripley on Aug 10, 2004 18:58:22 GMT -5
Frustrating, isn't it, that they won't even give it a TRY! The only way I can think of convincing my friends is to get them to hand the dog over to me for just TWO WEEKS and see the tremendous effects of NILIF & some structure & RULES in the dog's lifestyle. I don't want to be bossy with people, and say right out "Put a leash on her and CORRECT her, now! That behavior is horrible!" but it's what I try to say, sweetly.. Hmm... I dunno, how to train ignorant owners... Would a prong collar work? PS -- I meant the prong collar for the owners, not the dog.. but it could work for the dog as well.
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Post by ripley on Aug 13, 2004 18:39:46 GMT -5
Hmm, I printed out about 400 (literally) pages on NILIF & controlling dominance aggression as well as fear & discomfort related aggression.
I basically told them that it was inhumane to let the dog feel like it had to lash out at everything when she was scared, uncomfortable or when there was a disruption in the house, and that kind of hit them... Hopefully they won't just read the first few words and decide that it sounds like too much work.
How's it going with your sister's dog, Willow?
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Post by Iluvmypup on Aug 27, 2004 14:43:44 GMT -5
I HATE IGNORANT OWNERS!!! I have to deal with them on a daily basis, and get sooooo sick of it. People just don't know how to train their dogs, and I see the dog suffer. I could care less if the owners had to deal with an out of control dog, but I hate seeing the dog have no 'leader' and taking matters into their own hands. They have no stable home and don't know how to react, resulting in low confidence. Could you suggest having them get a behaviourist or trainer? I know you could probably help out a lot, but family members are usually, at least for me, less likely to listen then a complete stranger who they have to pay money for. ;D
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Post by Willow on Aug 27, 2004 15:11:53 GMT -5
Could you suggest having them get a behaviourist or trainer? I know you could probably help out a lot, but family members are usually, at least for me, less likely to listen then a complete stranger who they have to pay money for. ;D Don't make me laugh!!
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Post by Iluvmypup on Aug 27, 2004 18:11:30 GMT -5
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Post by ripley on Aug 27, 2004 18:48:57 GMT -5
And my guess is that they don't think they NEED a trainer because they think training will do the dog no good.
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