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Post by Danemom on Jun 9, 2004 6:26:27 GMT -5
The other night, when I just got home from work, my 1.5 y/o Dane came in, along with the other dogs. No problem. I told my very tall, 15 y/o son to go check the trash, so Ri wouldn't get in it and tip it over. My son did just that, told me it was empty and as he was turning to come back into the living room, the dane began to growl and my son started to back away from him so I could get him. I turned on the kitchen light, and he lunged at my son, and gave him a scratch on his right hand. It was as if he didn't knw who my son was! Is this normal? I don't think so. and my son didn't even go near him! Yet he lunged.... What's the deal? Did he not recognize him and was protecting me? Maybe his eyesight isn't quite right? Can Danes just really hate one person? we have a behavioralsit coming over Thursday to see how the family interacts and how the dogs play. ONe change in his life has been the addition of another dane, a rescue female, before all these behaviors started about 2 weeks ago. Since, he has bit my son 2x, and growled the deep menacing growl at my husband 2x and bit a neighborhood girl who was sticking her hand through the fence in the back yard, even after being told not to. How long do I give him to settle in with the new (he ignores her now...)? Or will these behaviors escalate? I simply cannot have a 130 pound dog biting. Can anyone help? I posted on another board and was told that my dog is a "ticking time bomb" . That's kind of scary when you think about it. Thanks everyone for your replies.
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Post by amyjo on Jun 9, 2004 6:59:47 GMT -5
Wow - what a frightening thing to have happen! I commend you for seeking help from multiple sources.
It is pretty tough to diagnose your problem over the internet. So no one here will be able to say with 100% certainty what your doggie is thinking or why he is doing those things. My guess is the new dog has upset the pecking order in your home and your dane is threated and reacting badly.
Luckily there are many things that you can do that will help your situation no matter WHAT the cause.
First - do a search on "NILIF" on this board and begin to implement it RIGHT NOW! With all your dogs not just the "problem" dog.
Second - due to the sudden onset - (if it was indeed sudden and there were no subtle clues up to this point) of the aggression, I would get a vet check to rule out any pain or thyroid condition specifically.
Third - I would have a heart to heart with your son to make sure that he is always treating the dog with care and respect. ( I apologize if that's offensive but I don't know him so I gotta say it...
The behaviorist is a good idea - but you should continue your independent research because behaviorists and trainers differ widely in opinion and approach and you never really know what you are gonna get.
And finally muzzle, muzzle, muzzle. Basket Type wire muzzle. It will let him breathe, eat and keep everybody safe and your anxiety at bay. Doesn't have to be a punishment - it is all about how you present it. If you act like it's the coolest thing in the world then eventually it will be. We can help you with that too, can't we Ann?
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Post by Danemom on Jun 9, 2004 7:07:08 GMT -5
Where would I get a basket type wire muzzle? I was at PetSmart the other day and was looking at muzzles for this very thing. The only thing I saw was a mesh thingy. (Can you tell I'm not "up" on muzzles?) Thanks for your reply!
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Post by amyjo on Jun 9, 2004 7:11:13 GMT -5
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Post by sibemom on Jun 9, 2004 15:06:30 GMT -5
Danemom, I would get the muzzle no doubt but I also sent you a PM with someone that I know that raises Danes. She is also a homeopath, she would be able to give you her perspective on this. She has bred, showed, trained etc... this breed for well over 20 years. So it would not hurt for you to get in touch with her. Her cost for a consultation if you choose to go that route is much less than what a behaviorist will charge and because of her experience with the breed she might be a good person to keep as a contact
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Post by Brooke on Jun 9, 2004 20:49:11 GMT -5
You can find them online all over the place. Petsmart sells them online although I have rarely seen them carry them in their stores. and Leerburg will definately have them. www.leerburg.com/muzzle.htmThe captions under the pictures are for a size reference and facial style. Click on them and you should get a little more info on which would probably suit your dog best. I would say this definately has a lot to do with the pack order. Bringing in another dog can do a lot to a breed of dog such as a dane they are a breed known to have territorial tendencies although are very very loyal dogs. I just love the breed but they are a working line and these types more so often need and require to be raised with a firm pack structure. I think NILIF will benefit your dog as well. I also agree with Sibemom about keeping your researching up after you speak with the behaviorist. Dog training and behavior has such a wide range of opinions and styles. Its always best to have varying opinions. You have to go with what works for YOUR dog. A good behaviorist or even trainer for that matter will go with what works for the individual dog. Not try and fit the method to the dog. Above all remember when it comes to a dog that is willing to bite it is always best to be safe than sorry. Some behaviorists believe that a muzzle is not a good tactic. Some believe that it agitates the dog and while this may be true at first (going along with what amyjo said it's all about how you present it to them and consistancy) they will get over it and it will become a part of their routine...
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Post by Darthvadersmum on Jul 2, 2004 20:57:28 GMT -5
Hi Danemom ~ I believe I know you from DOL. It's nice to see you here as well. I can tell you really love your Dane! How are things going? Were you able to get a muzzle? Keep in touch. Our boy, Darth Vader (we call him Vader) just turned a year this May. Have a great 4th! Bow Wow Beds www.bowwowbeds.netJust added a NEW ITEM!
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Post by Danemom on Jul 5, 2004 8:43:56 GMT -5
Yep! It's me and I sure do love him! I did get a muzzle which he wears when out in the family setting, but with just me or my hubby, he has it off. And I am waiting to hear from the lady who knows about the homeopathic medicine. He was put on Rimadyl for pain after his neuter, and I JUST found out that Rimadyl can cause aggression in dogs....like we needed that, huh?
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Post by sibemom on Jul 5, 2004 16:33:33 GMT -5
Good to here the muzzle is working I hope she can give you some insight on the problem just hang in there
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Post by amyjo on Jul 6, 2004 9:40:58 GMT -5
I think it would be a mistake to pin all your hopes on a homeopathic remedy and not address training issues - specifically NILIF..... I am not saying the remedy WON'T help but if it doesn't help or only partially helps you coluld be still left with issues that haven't been addressed. The nice thing about NILIF is it is good for all dogs...so it can't hurt, only help.
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Post by Willow on Jul 6, 2004 13:46:51 GMT -5
I don't think any real "reasoning" person would ever pin their hopes on one thing, but I agree with Ann and think homeopathic treatment, at least will not hurt, and in most liklihood WILL help, esp. since it has been admitted that Rimidyl can cause aggression.
There are many documented cases where homeopathy was tried as a "last ditch effort" before putting the dog down, and it worked.
The more I am finally understanding what I am learning about Classical Homeopathy (there is a difference), the more I believe that in most cases it can and will work.
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Post by amyjo on Jul 6, 2004 14:08:06 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you Loey - or with Ann's original recommendation.
I do think that even if there is a physical reason that this dog has become aggressive (vaccine/meds...etc) which I fully believe is a possibility...he has bitten numerous times now. This worries me because I think the biting can start for one reason (physical) the dog learns that it works (people back off or he gets what he wants) and then the biting becomes a learned response for the dog...
I know how hard it is to admit that your dog is aggressive. I know how comforting it is to find "reasons" for the behavior. I have been there and I know we aren't always "reasoning" when it comes to the emotional attachments we have to our pets. I just really hope that this problem is also being addressed from a behavioral standpoint.
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Post by Willow on Jul 6, 2004 14:23:04 GMT -5
Amyjo, I understand what you are saying too, and this is why the dog, as has been said several times, should be wearing a muzzle anytime it is around anyone.
One thing that makes me also think that this is a "learned" behavior due to a basic temperment "flaw" is that the dog apparantly isn't aggressive with the adults in the family.
If, however, it is due to an underlying physical/mental problem due to meds/vaccines, the results can be and often are dramatic.
I just read of one such case on one of the lists I'm on...probably TAV. Aggressive dog suddenly biting. s/he was treated homeopathically and the aggression immediately stopped after the first treatment.
This does not mean, however, that while the dog is being treated homeopathically, that it might not resurface again before the cure is complete, and that's why it's so very, very important to stay in touch with the homeopath and to stay "on top" of things, and if the dog has had no ob training to speak of, or is "spoiled", it would be an excellent time to introduce the NILIF program and stick to it. Even if the cause was the vaccine or meds, every dog, aggressive or not, will benefit from the NILIF program.
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Post by sibemom on Jul 6, 2004 15:48:31 GMT -5
That is the whole key. You do not just put your faith in one thing. The homeopathic treatment along with a strickt training plan like NILIF will make things alot better. I agree that muzzle should be worn around every two legged creature that the dog interacts with adult and child alike, untill the issues are solved.
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Post by Danemom on Jul 6, 2004 17:33:46 GMT -5
He does wear a muzzle around anyone except my husband and myself. And he graduated obedience training, so we do NILIF daily. It doesn't work with the biting because he does it suddenly and without provocation, which is our concern. We feel it may be easier to work with if we knew when it was coming. I am simply trying any and all ideas that can be until this is under control or until I have no other alternative but to rehome him. I just recently learned of the homeopathic medicine and am going to give that a try too. I am noticing other slight changes, like a couple of scabs here and there, and "digging" into the carpet. These are new behaviors and changes since his vaccinations, so I am open to any and all ideas to save my boy. Thank you all for your ideas and thoughts....
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